Episode 190: Laurice Snyder - Certified Birth Doula

Hello and welcome to the Kosh, the People's Podcast.

I'm your host, Timber Smith, and the Kosh is a podcast that spotlights people who've had an association with the Kosh and the surrounding Fox Cities region.

Kosh listeners, how are we doing out there?

It is a fantastic day because it is podcast day and you already know, I'm super geeked about that.

Before we dig too far in it, I just want to remind y'all that this episode of the Kasha is sponsored by Timber Ties.

Now if you if you've been on this journey with me, just remember I told y'all Timber started this business not that long ago of wooden bow ties.

And due to the fact of where we are at right now, I feel like we are in wedding season.

So if you know someone out there who's thinking about getting wedding and you don't know what to get those groomsmen or grooms people or people and you want something that's different, distinct and distinguished, check out Timber Ties.

That is timber-ties.com.

Once again, that is timber-ties.com.

Hey, and thank you for the support that I have been getting on my little entrepreneurial journey.

OK, Kosh, listeners, let me break it down.

What's going on today?

First of all, it is gorgeous.

It is beautiful.

We aren't in it.

We are, I don't want to call it spring anymore.

Like we're right on the cusps of maybe summer.

I guess it's still spring.

It's still spring because due to the fact that we are in a space where I would not also be surprised if we got 4 inches of snow tomorrow, which is Wisconsin.

Just purses that happen to us occasionally.

And but I will say this, I have taken the time to do if y'all don't know, yearly I do this dance with this enormous rototiller.

All right, first of all, shout out to my brother-in-law, Chris Weiss, who brings this.

This is an annual event.

And this thing is like this old school rototiller.

It's it's a monstrous, it could drag a car and me and this rototiller fight every year to get the garden ready.

And you already know I'm a super gardener because we got to make hot sauce and we got to make hot sauce.

And I did my annual tango with this thing.

I am sore today, but once again, I won.

So we are ready to plant and I am exciting about another year of gardening.

All right, so enough of that.

Let me just break this down.

I am pretty excited about today's conversation.

I'm excited to see where it goes.

We got an interesting subject matter.

Matter of fact, here's the thing, I think it's a super, it's crazy important subject matter, that's for sure.

But I'm not sure people always know about this particular thing.

I didn't know about it myself until like a couple of years ago.

And I had an opportunity to meet somebody else who does this.

And I was like, oh, OK, that is that makes so much sense.

But even more importantly, you already know what I'm going to say.

Like, I don't know how we continue to get these amazing, amazing guests.

And we definitely got one this week.

And this week isn't any different.

So without any further ado, this week's guest is Louise Schneider.

Hey, Louise, What's going on?

Oh.

I'm doing great timber, it's a great day outside, it's great to be here.

Hey, I'm glad that you made a little time.

Also.

Let me just go ahead and say this.

We are in the midst of Memorial Day weekend, so let me give my respects to all our fallen soldiers and those vets out there.

Thank you for your service.

Yeah.

I appreciate you saying that because I think that's actually the first connection you and I had several years ago, both supporting veterans in our respective universities and higher education institutions.

So this is kind of full circle.

It just kind of hit me with a bead.

Memorial Day weekend.

Yeah, you're right.

That is when we met.

I didn't even put two and two together.

I just thought of that as you said it, look at this connection.

It's a, well, you know, this region, you know, is not, it's not a huge region, but it is region full of amazing individuals out here doing really, really good work.

You know, it's very funny because I feel like I've known you for some time and I've kind of got an opportunity to see you work in several different environments now.

And it sounds like you've got even a newer cooler one now.

I would definitely agree with that.

Well, before we go down that path, because I think we're going to be going down that path for a topic of the week, Laurice, can you please share a little something about yourself and your relationship with the surrounding Fox Cities region?

Yeah, absolutely.

So I first and foremost am a champion of people.

I feel like I'm a dreamer, I'm a community connector and I'm someone with an endless amount of curiosity.

But I love that I so I currently reside in Fond du Lac, which may be a little outside the kosh, but I'll tell you a little bit how I believe it's really an extension of the kosh.

So I'm a new, a new entrepreneur, which is part of my journey, which we'll talk about starting my business called Rooted Wings LLC.

And I do two things that may seemingly be a little bit different.

I facilitate human centered leadership development.

And then I'm also a birth doula, which is what I hope we will spend a lot of time talking about today.

But facts, because I don't know if everybody knows what a Dooley is.

So I'm super excited to get into that.

Yeah.

I'm excited to talk about it because that's I think that's very true.

A little bit more about me.

I'm married to my spouse Pete and we're raising 3 spirited, very spirited children.

My oldest being 12.

So I'm I'm surviving my first parenting journey of a middle schooler.

Feeling pretty proud of myself for that.

Not the middle.

Schooler, Yeah.

That's a That's a rough little patch.

There it is, and spending most of my professional career in education, I thought I had it down.

I do not.

So I need about other middle school parents to help me here.

I also have two in elementary, A10 and A7 year old.

So that is what keeps me busy.

And yeah, professionally, I've been in education, K12 through higher education, came to education via social work.

So that's really what my background is.

And then because I've been in education and really working with families and students and community, I have centered a lot of my professional work on nonprofits as well.

So in nonprofit work you get to do some amazing things, meet some amazing people and and so with being in human centered leadership consulting and being a birth doula at the same time, it is quite the experience.

And what brought me to the Kashi area actually was about 2000 and 9:00-ish.

So I've been around for a while.

My team, I had just gotten back from working in upstate New York.

I did a year of AmeriCorps service as social worker working in a high risk after school program for individuals experiencing high risk crisis, seas and trauma.

And so I got a job.

I was invited to have a role in the Fond du Lac school district.

And then I lived in Fond du Lac for about a year where I met my now spouse Pete, and he was in education as well.

And he just bought a house here in Oshkosh.

And so I followed suit and we lived here for about about 8 years and got married here.

You lived in the cosh.

I did, Yes I did.

Right on 9th Ave. across from A&W, down the street from Dublin's Perfect location.

It is a good location.

It is a great location.

And so then we moved, we started having kids, we got married here, we started having children and then when we were pregnant with our third, we needed a little more space.

So we started the house hunt and looking for a place here in Oshkosh.

The market was not working with us.

It was just we could not find what we were looking for.

We loved our neighborhood.

And so that brought us then to Fond du Lac because we both were still living in Fond du Lac, but all of our providers are here in Oshkosh.

In my work as a birth doula, I serve Oshkosh area.

So I feel like I'm, I'm really pulling the extension from, you know, the cash down down South a little bit.

I spend a lot of time here.

OK, that's what's up.

So where are you originally from?

Well, that might be a podcast episode on its own, but I'm originally from San Diego, CA so I got to claim my Cali roots.

But I grew up in the Green Bay area so yeah.

I mean, they went to school K through through 12th grade in Green Bay and then have moved in a couple different places that I mentioned living in New York, did my undergrad at UW Stevens Point, my masters at UW Milwaukee.

So yeah, I've been around.

But yeah, most people ask how do you get there?

How'd you get from California to Fond du Lac in Wisconsin and all the things.

And each move was intentional, but not what I thought was going to be on my path, that's for sure.

OK, that makes sense.

That makes sense.

And and you're and to know that you also there's some some Green Bay going on there.

So you're the full stretch fondy to Green Bay.

You are familiar with all of it?

Yeah, the whole 41.

Yeah, the.

Whole the whole 41.

Absolutely, Absolutely.

All right, that's pretty cool.

So educationally, you know, then that's where that's the space in which I got to meet you.

I think you were working in a school district at the at that time.

What were some of the things that y'all were working on at that time?

And then you trained, you made a transition into higher Ed, Like let's talk about that a little bit.

Yeah, OK, So I that's great.

Yeah.

So I was working at finally high school again, started there, working really in the social work realm, and I loved that work.

I love supporting students, supporting families, and I came into education and social work.

I was drawn to that because I was a student that most educators on paper would look at and not think that I'd be the one going to college or that I'd be the one really succeeding in K12 education.

I had a lot of family and systemic kind of circumstances that I think would say otherwise when we think about our statistics and we think about children who do not have full access to their learning and education.

So I wanted educators and I wanted students really to be able to see themselves in me.

And I wanted educators.

I wanted to be able to sit side by side, educators who would provide reasons why maybe children weren't achieving and say that's not why it there's other things that we can do as educators.

It's not poverty, it's not race, it's not, you know, low income.

Well, I guess that's poverty.

It gets, it's not first generation.

It's, it's none of those things.

It's their the belief.

And when they, when you are in an environment where people believe that you can achieve, you will do that.

And I had so many people in my life that really surrounded themselves around me.

So I loved doing that for others.

And what I noticed quickly after the first few years is that students would come to me and yes, we would work to get that student across the stage.

We'd work to get another student across the stage.

But the issues in the school were the same.

They were not changing.

So it was still students being sent out of class for little things.

It was still minor things.

Yes, absolutely.

It was still students feeling like I met a lot of students, sadly.

They would tell their teacher this school is racist and teachers didn't know how to respond to that.

And so they would defend themselves.

I didn't do that.

That wasn't racist.

I'm not sure what they what they're talking about there.

I think they're a good student and I would try to be that translator.

Like what they're saying is they don't belong here.

And because that's not your experience, you don't understand how they're seeing it.

It's not that what you did was racist.

So.

Yeah, because it's so I think people when they when they hear that they go to such a personal place, but they don't know what the individual often or a lot of times is basically saying the environment in the system is treating me differently.

Yes.

And it's.

Not a direct point to you personally, but it's saying, look, I'm not doing well because I'm not being treated the same in these environments.

The system is treating me different, yes.

Exactly.

And so I wanted to change the system.

So I then was at a pretty young age invited to work on some systemic issues, working at the district level on something actually that was talking about disproportionality.

So the amount of especially black and African American students being identified for special education and not achieving at the same rate as their white peers.

Looking at students who are experiencing homelessness, students who are new to the area from more urban areas, more urban schools.

And so I was really trying to help create the, the fill in the gap of the knowledge that is, as I was just saying, educators were responding out of their personal experience and their personal experience wasn't the same or isn't the same as the students that they're serving.

And again, that's a systems issue.

We have, you know, who goes to higher education, who gets teaching degrees?

It is typically mostly white middle class individuals.

And our schools are so diverse.

And so there's a gap in that first hand knowledge, first hand lived experience.

And so I was trying to help provide information, education development around how do you serve individuals who are different than than yourselves.

It doesn't.

Yes, I want to also increase the amount of students seeing people like them in education, in authority figures, you know, in administration, but that will take some time.

First and foremost, I wanted educators to kind of understand that the way that they did school, which most educators did school well, that's why they came into education.

We generally are attracted to the things that make us feel good that that is not.

Imagine being a student who hates being here every day, who doesn't feel successful, who despite their friends and families having educations still, you know, dying in the streets or, you know, being incarcerated or whatnot.

And so just really kind of help to to bring that forward is how I got my lift really into the systems work.

So I did that for about 8 years at Fondle Lake High School or Fondle Lake School District and then had an opportunity in the same line of work to work in higher education.

So I was kind of, as we know, you know, people see your work and they invite you into other spaces.

And so there was opportunity to work as university relations manager at Marine Park Technical College.

So I think you and I met when I was still doing the work at the school district because we were trying to get access to kids.

You were at UW Oshkosh and had the preview days that really were about students who were underrepresented in higher education.

So we are doing that.

And then when I went to Marine Park, part of the area of diversity relations was supporting veterans and military connected families.

And then you also had that role.

And so we had another connection that way.

And so I did that for few years and then I went back to the school district in an administrative role as a diversity relations manager or no that was at Marine Park.

I went back as the equity coordinator.

So that was a new role for the final like school district that really was again at the cabinet level, making decisions side by side with all the other decision makers so that we could provide more access for children and for families.

And we did a lot of community work as well.

And they did that for several years.

And then I was invited to come to CSIS 6 here in the cash and work as a consultant in the same, in the same kind of space, but not just serving one school district, serving multiple districts.

And so that was really kind of the professional journey.

And then that position came to an end and it was laid off and really trying to figure out what the next step was for me.

And so that's where it entered in the birth doula role, which is something I had always been interested in.

I don't know, maybe not always, but since I was having kids, so and I had my first child, Adele.

So when I was pregnant with her, I did a lot of learning about what it means to be pregnant, what happens to your body, how to prepare for labor and delivery, understanding postpartum, preparing as a partner with my husband.

And so I was interested because once I did that for myself and I had an incredible experience feeling so informed, feeling so empowered, I kind of knew what to expect and I knew what decisions I was going to be asked to make.

And so I had a had a really positive experience that way.

And, and birth is something that is so incredibly unpredictable.

I mean, it is, it really is.

So many things could happen and it really is miraculous when you think about how you even get to a place of having a baby, all the things that happen and just connect and line up well.

As as I'm going to give my personal male perspective of being in the room.

It is terrifying.

Straight Terrified, Yes.

Yes, and there's so many unknowns there's you're in a medical system oftentimes if you're at a hospital or if you're at a birth center, some do still have many home births.

That's kind of been a wave of of people who are engaging with home births.

But it just I felt like I kind of know what's going on.

And so as we go throughout our lives, we surround ourselves with people who are do similar things.

You know, you're having kids, you probably have some friends that are having kids, you're going to college, you have some friends, you're going to college, you're getting married, like all the things.

And so as I was talking to a lot of friends that were having children, they're asking me questions and they're like, how do you know that?

And I'm like, OK, well, I took this class, you know, I took, I read this book.

I'm like, OK, well, I started getting a lot more questions.

How do you know that?

Or how did did your provider ask you that?

And you know, sometimes it was yes, sometimes I asked them.

And I realized that there was this gap in knowledge from my experience and from what others were.

And, and I don't want to put it all blame on the providers.

I think it really is a systems issue from lots of different places.

But people going into birth spaces to have a baby don't have the knowledge to even understand all the things that they need to understand.

And it's not that you need to have a medical degree, but you're going to be asked a lot of questions about decisions about procedures.

And if you don't know the knowledge, you're not making an informed decision.

And so the people in my circle being in education were also educators.

So I felt like they were smart, they had access to knowledge, they could read books.

There's all the things I thought, What about people who don't have, who have more barriers to the the people in my circle?

How are they navigating in the birth space?

And so I became, I think at that time really like an informal doula and a doula really is, is really a servant as as a person who serves during these transitional times.

And so I'm a birth doula.

There's postpartum doulas who serve in after someone has a baby in the postpartum period for usually about the first year.

There's death doulas who help that transition when someone is in their final stages.

There's bereavement doulas who help after loss again, any major transition.

So in the.

A birth space.

I thought I could really, I think I could really do something here.

So I was interested because I was already doing that.

I hadn't attended someone else's birth, but I was giving the information, I was supporting them.

I was helping them if they were breastfeeding, I was just providing emotional space for them to be whatever what they were feeling.

The highs, the lows, the encouragement, questions, advocacy, which is all within the birth realm.

And so I was interested and I thought I was talking about to my husband.

I'm like, I think I could this would be kind of cool.

I like this.

And I learned about, of course, in my birth class was taught by a doula.

So the first term of a dual I had heard because of the birth class I had.

And then I, you know, I was loving what I was doing working in education as well because I'm, I'm AI as I opened up with, I am a people person.

I believe in people centered in this humanity.

I love to serve.

And so I was doing that as well.

And I also thought, well, I'm, I'm in the, the stage of having children.

Maybe this is just a stage thing where I'm just like, this is really cool because I'm doing it.

But you know, later on, I might not think it's as cool.

I might not be as interested.

And I'd also considered maybe thinking about being a midwife, which is a medical provider who also delivers babies.

So when you have a baby in the United States, you typically have either an OB, which is a doctor, or you have a midwife.

And some midwives work in a hospital setting and some midwives work in a home setting.

And as a doula, you are part of the birth professional team, but you're not a medical provider, which is amazing because you can take care of all the things and you're not making medical decisions, but you're providing information about the decisions that families might have to make.

And then around.

So then going through, I had my children, I just kind of did this informally.

And in that time of getting laid off and and kind of figuring out what's next for Laurice, all of these things started happening in Aligning.

I had met someone, a chiropractor, who was talking about their role in supporting pregnant women and supporting infants in chiropractic care.

I was invited to attend a workshop, perhaps if it was like a workshop for doulas.

I'm specifically trying to increase the outcomes for Black maternal health.

And then I looked up the training again 10 years later, like I should look up that training again.

What, what will it take?

And the training opportunity was a perfect alignment of my schedule, which at this point was very chaotic.

And I thought, OK, you know, and I just lost my job.

So I thought, I don't know if I can invest in training.

It's all aligning.

And my husband, so supportive, said, Lurice, you need to do this.

This has been here and just it, it, it's been right in front of you the whole time.

And this is the opportunity.

The first day I took the first day of class for the training, I thought this is exactly where I need to be.

And so I just jumped in and started my own business and continued with consulting.

That's an area I'm very comfortable with, familiar with.

And so there's kind of this intersection of these two things.

And people are like, those are two very different things, but they really are not.

They're so similar and just how we think about our own voice, our own agency when we make decisions and having information and how we support others.

So it leadership and and becoming a parent or having multiple children or wherever you are in that journey is a transformation.

And so it really is this beautiful place that I would not have said was on my bingo card.

You would ask me.

All right, well, let's talk about this consultant, because you ain't going to get off the hook on that.

We we, we need to know because we're going to learn about doula ING.

Is that a word?

Doula ING?

Yeah.

Did I make that word?

You know, you got it.

That's legit.

That is.

Yes, it is.

Let's talk about this consulting.

So, I mean, you can tell you have vast experience in different settings and I've seen, I've seen you work, you make great relationships, you get outcomes on tough things.

And that's not everybody can do that.

And not everybody can navigate those spaces.

What's what are you consulting?

What are you helping people to do?

Yeah.

That's a, that's a great question.

I think first and foremost, what I'm helping people do is be OK with wherever they are in their own leadership journey.

So one of the things that I have been drawn to is that now as we think about leaders coming into leadership roles, you often get promoted because you're really good at doing a job and that's awesome.

And so you move up to the next level and the next level often then is supervising people.

But yet we don't have those supervising people skills.

We don't know people well.

We know our world, but we don't know others.

And so the thing I'm helping people do is to start with where they're at and and help bridge the gap to those that they're serving.

So whether you're supervising, you're managing, you're engaging.

So I work again, in a lot of the nonprofit space.

So we have a lot of leaders around leadership boards that are serving populations of people than communities that maybe they don't have the lived experience.

So it really is helping to bridge that gap in the knowledge base and how skills, building the skills to ask questions, to build up their cultural competence in the sense of we all have a culture in which we operate the rules of engagement.

So when something starts at a certain time, how do we approach that?

Do we think that time means if it's 8:00, is it 8:00 on the dot?

Is it 745?

Is it eight O 6 is OK?

And so we when we don't have those same cultural expectations, conflict arises.

And when conflict is arising, we, we're not as efficient and so and in it can cause strain to a lot of relationships.

And so I'm helping people, yes.

And so I'm helping people figure out, I think one of the things is in our country right now, there is so much polarization.

So it's, it's an either or situation.

And I want to bring in the both and, and so I want people to see like your experience is just as valuable as someone else's experience.

And how do you now coexist?

How do you lead?

How do you create, create respect and trust?

And it's OK if you don't agree.

That's not necessarily the the purpose.

The purpose is to be in the space.

And when we have so much diverse thought perspective, there is so much beauty in that.

And that's why I love people because people are so complex.

And so I kind of help bring it that to light.

And I also, I am, I don't know where I got this, I'm gonna credit my mom, but I just am OK with being like very vulnerable and just very real.

Like this is how I see it.

I totally messed up today and this is what happened.

And so I share a lot of my own stories in my consulting and I, I think that that really helps people not feel like it does.

It's not going to be perfect and that's not the goal.

It's to be human and to be real.

That's why I call it human centered leadership development.

It's really bringing that humanness.

And, and I think in leadership, sometimes we lose that because we feel like we always have to be on and being on also includes being human.

And so just kind of bringing, bringing that forward.

So I, I really love just working with leadership teams, figuring out the messy middle that is something that they're struggling with something there's conflict arising.

And so through their use of tools, I have a couple different assessments that workshops and development, individual coaching as well.

And I also, so I worked with someone by the name of Kim Walters actually at Seasus 6A.

Big shout.

Out to Kev I.

Think you know, Kev?

Yeah, well, Kim.

'S got an episode, yes.

And she does have an episode.

Yeah, I feel like that's you know, that was and that was several years ago, you know, yeah, it's been years.

I think it's when she first brought the Center for all to Seasus 6.

And so the she also has her own company called yes, Anne.

And so the two of us in working together there also continued to work together and Co serve clients.

And what I love about that is we are very different people and we talk about that having two different perspectives, two different ways of being and we come together and we can be so effective.

We have a great relationship, we're friends, you know, all the things.

And so it really is helping people.

Yeah, bridge that gap.

It kind of the what you don't even know, you don't know yet.

And so bringing that, bringing that forward and showing people it's okay not to know, it's not okay to ignore people.

It's not okay to dismiss people.

It's not okay to, you know, just let people think about or I guess it's not OK for when people bring things forward to feel less than as part of your team.

And so that's what we really want to, to bring to light.

And it is just incredible work.

And I know a lot of people don't like conflict, but I really like to lean.

I like to lean into the conflict because that's where so you can learn so much if you stay with it and stay present and just be like, what's happening here and what's my role and why do I think this way or why is this bothering me?

I love being in that place.

OK, I.

Feel that I resonated with so much of what she said because it actually kind of feels like what I do currently professionally is I've tried to come up with different ways or the way people describe how they see me doing the work.

And I've been called a fixer, I've been called all, but I, I think it's community resolutionist.

Timber's good for making up a word.

I don't know if resolutionist is a word.

It's a word.

Today, but it.

Is right.

Yeah.

I think that's what I heard that you were doing.

You are a community resolutionist consultant, yes?

I love that because.

That is usually what all that work is working towards is just to provide resolutions to situations or to keep situations from even occurring.

Yes, by by just providing insights, thoughtfulness in perspective so people understand.

I find that most people really come from a really good place and they just don't know what they don't know.

And adding that extra voice, those people with different experiences in there so they can provide different lenses.

So thoughtfulness can occur at the point of strategic planning or at the point of implementation can make great things happen.

Yes.

Absolutely.

In that perspective taking, just we think about, we only see the world through the lens that we know and we don't always consider the lens that other people are looking through the world.

And I just think if you just pause for a moment and like you said, be a be strategic, be thoughtful in the strategicness and just have a moment and say, I wonder what else is going on here.

We would be, I think, just so much more cohesive as a community and any community as a country.

I used to think that the goal because as I said earlier, you know, coming into social work and working with students and families, I really wanted students to see me as one of them and to see me in the struggles that I had as a child.

Not be a barrier.

Certainly something to you got to work within what you have, but not be a barrier to the next thing.

And so students would say, you know, well, it can't do that because we don't have a car or, you know, the pantries only open on this day.

I said, you know, I would say to, you know, whether it be a family or I would say to a student, like I'll be there in the pantry line with you, because that's where I was too.

And then after that, we're going to get after this, you know, math or whatever, because that's not that's not an excuse to me.

And I say that with love and compassion because I want them to see the their strength and resilience.

And often times when we don't have those experiences, though, we shy away.

We're like, oh, they don't, they don't have a car or they don't have money for this or they don't have that.

And it's like, hey.

Or we're busy feeling sorry for them.

Or we're feeling sorry.

Yeah, that's not what they're asking for one. 100 percent, 100%.

And I think as a system, that's where we we've gotten it wrong, is that we then just allow things.

We allow students not taking an education because they're tired or they're hungry or whatever and we feel bad.

So we just say you can just go go to the nurse's office or you can just go do this thing and it's no you, yes, that sucks and we're going to do this.

So yes.

And yes.

And yeah, so Cam, you know, that's her company.

Like she she was brilliant in making that.

And so, yeah, I used to think that the goal for a conversation because of that being so centered to me, I wanted people to hear me.

I wanted you to know my story.

I wanted you to understand.

And that wasn't working because I felt like that was creating more attention because for everything I was saying, people also had their own rebuttal of why, you know, I don't know why it wasn't gonna work or why they felt differently.

And so about 10 years ago, I really started changing my goal of a conversation.

And the first part is to understand first and foremost, where are they coming from?

So rather than be so rooted in where I'm coming from, I kind of switched the flip the script, I guess, as the saying.

And I thought what is coming up for them that they that this is so center to their existence and and less about me.

And I started hearing so many different perspectives and having so many just, I can't even put into words the incredible conversations I had when I made that change.

You started.

You started meeting people where they were at, Yes.

And I used to say I did that, but I didn't actually do that.

Then when I flipped it, I'm like, I, I totally, and I could understand more.

And I'm like, I get why you feel this way or feel, you know, have this belief or whatever it might be.

This makes sense to me.

And so I, I'm not here to convince you otherwise.

And I'm here that I can offer you another perspective.

So I typically say when I'm in a conversation, I first want to take something away that I'm learning from their perspective and I want to be able to offer them another perspective.

And that's the goal of every conversation.

And that has brought me so much piece.

It really has because, and it invites another conversation versus just a, okay, I guess we're gonna agree to disagree, which I don't like that kind of sentiment because I feel like we haven't done our work to disagree, but it really is like at the end of it, I've given you something, you've given me something and I'm OK to walk away at this point and hopefully we'll revisit this conversation.

So it really has been transformation of my own journey as I've also grown and I believe in growth and do a lot of work to do daily growth and and development as much as I'm trying to offer others.

We went down a path that's a.

Path right there I love.

That OK?

Well, let me ask this now.

If you weren't doing what you're doing right now, Marice, what would you like to be doing?

So I think that that's a great question.

I really feel that I'm doing exactly what I want to be doing right now.

It it's messy right now, you know, as again, being an entrepreneur, entrepreneur being and having my own business.

This was not, this is as I said, not on the Mingo card.

This is not how I saw myself.

But I've been entrepreneurial spaces.

I hear about stories of people who have wanted to run their own business for since they were a kid and they've always had a dream or they're on their third company that that wasn't.

I never saw that for myself.

And so it is messy.

I'm learning a ton.

It is kind of fun being in the learner's seat.

It is challenging being in the learner's seat while also being in the doing seat.

So I feel like, wow, you know, I think back to college, you have it so good when you just really kind of there to learn and you don't have all the doing.

So I'm trying to do both right now and it's messy and it's hard.

There's many, you know, nights that I miss dinner or I, you know, don't put my kids to bed or my kids wake up in the morning and I'm not there because I'm on the road early or I'm overnight somewhere.

Especially with the consulting, because I, I really do serve all over Wisconsin and we do, I do a lot of virtual work as well.

The birth dual work is more centrally located, more geographic to, you know, this area.

But either way, it, it, it is messy trying to figure out the balance or even if it's a balance.

I really think it's like a formula and I'm just trying to figure out the formula.

I'm in China, I'm just getting to my first year of business.

I did my taxes and it all came out great.

So I was very proud of myself for that.

That wasn't something again, you know, seeking out professionals and and resources, but I really think this is what I'm supposed to be doing.

I, I feel like there's so many opportunities that are just clicking in the way that is that affirmation.

Laurice, this is where you're supposed to be.

This is hard and this is where you're supposed to be.

And the other thing is that I really feel it's not about, I think we create identity around what we do.

I see especially in a lot of service sector areas, you know, as you know, came by via social work.

So people would say I'm a social worker or I'm a police officer or I'm a teacher or whatever it might be.

We create our whole identity around that.

And I think something that I have learned throughout all the different transitions is that I'm a person first who's here to serve.

And I've been able to do that through a variety of different roles.

And so really focusing on who I am is where I want to be and I want to serve and to be in this space especially.

I love the consulting because I love to be a sounding board for people and to be a birth doula.

It is so sacred to be in that space birth recently just a couple of days ago it was unexpected.

I was a backup for someone else who actually wasn't even actually their backup.

They called me as a backup was not something on my radar and I was able to attend.

And so I met this family for the first time in the birth room and there are some models out there that that do that.

But the way that this family just trusted me in almost instantly and and making decisions and just to come in and bring presents.

It's like this is it.

This is what I'm supposed to be doing and I have found so much peace.

I just I feel so confident in I don't have it all figured out.

I'll figure it out.

I'll you know, I'll like more of the technical side of things again, but as far as the human side and the service side, I don't think there's anything else I want to be doing at this time.

I really I see a path forward.

It's not all that clear, but it's the path I, I know, I just feel it in my soul that it's exactly where I need to be.

So that was maybe a little longer answer to your question, but I think this is it.

This is it.

It's the right answer to the question because it's your answer to the question.

We'll take it.

Excellent.

All right, we'll take it.

All right.

That's good.

That's good.

All right.

Well, what we're going to do right now, Well, cash listeners, you already know, all right?

You know when you hear that, that means it is time for the topic of the week.

And the topic of the week is chosen by our guest 99.9% of the time.

And guess what?

This week's not going to be any different.

So, Laurice, what's our topic of the week?

I want to talk.

About maternal health outcomes, that's my topic.

Let's.

Go all.

Right.

So as I've alluded a little bit, I'm glad we're getting into it.

I the role of a doula is really to help change maternal health outcomes.

You know, in the United States, we are a country that is high resourced from the medical knowledge, training, equipment, medication.

We we have it all, and yet we have more women dying in childbirth than we should.

And there's lots of reasons for that.

And I think a role of a doula is not going to be the only role that's going to change that.

But one of the big pieces that is happening.

And I feel like there's story after story after story about women who aren't listened to, they are telling their provider this is, and, you know, maybe a response as well that's that's normal or that's to be expected or don't worry about that.

And that happens throughout pregnancy, that happens throughout the actual labor and delivery.

And that happens in the postpartum period where we have such significant rates of postpartum depression and postpartum perinatal mood disorders, anxiety.

And so the reason why I am so passionate about being a doula and being in this birth space is to change that is to help provide a bridge for clients who I call clients, their patients to a provider to I I really out timber.

I want to go big.

I want to change the system.

When I think about health providers not having, when I was talking about educators and building the bridge of the knowledge around people they're serving and not realizing that they don't have their lived experience.

I want to change the health systems.

And I really want to be a voice of advocacy so that families know that they can have someone else be there as a sounding board, as a person that is helping them achieve the kind of birth experience that they want and have the knowledge to do so.

Like what decisions are they going to have to make?

Our bodies cannot give birth safely if we don't feel safe.

And when we feel threatened that our providers not listening to us or we're in a space that isn't safe for us, we're not going to be able to do that.

And so I, I think there's so much work to be done.

And I, it's something that also like education, I was in school.

So I thought, I know education, I went to school, I know all the things.

And then when you become an educator, there's a whole, it's like, I feel like the curtain, you know, what's behind the black curtain.

It's like there is a whole lot back here that I had no idea about.

And that's exactly how I see the, the healthcare system right now, especially in terms of maternal health.

And so, and when I say maternal health, I really do mean, you know, any birthing person.

I also do a lot with partners.

And so I want partners to feel that they're knowledgeable to support their loved one through this.

Incredible.

As you, as you said, from a male perspective, it can be terrifying.

You don't know what's going on, right?

You don't know what's going on.

You don't know what to expect.

You you see your loved one in pain and you don't know necessarily how to respond.

And so I, I feel like the role of the doula, so the role of the doula again, not being medical, so I'm not making any medical decisions.

I'm helping provide the education about what to expect.

And also then in the decision making process.

So I don't speak for clients.

I help amplify their voice through knowing them and knowing what's important, important to them.

And it might be helpful to kind of understand so how I kind of meet clients and and take them through.

So if you don't mind, I'll just kind of talk about like what the process looks like.

Well, no, I was.

Going to ask because that's one of my big questions is like, how do you find a doula?

Like I don't know it like it doesn't seem like is it something that your your person Doctor Who's working with your birth recommends?

Or do you like, how do you get hooked up with a doula?

Yeah.

The people want to know, OK, I'm just.

I'm so serious about it because, you know, but first of all, I'd never heard of a doula until just several years ago.

And then I'm like, well, how does, how does 1 hook up on one?

Yeah.

OK.

So there's, there's several different ways and I'll kind of talk about what how it happens here in Wisconsin, because in Wisconsin we don't have any like medical or community doula programs.

We have a few smaller ones, but in other states they have like full on like a hospital system might have a doula team.

And in Wisconsin we don't really have that.

So most doulas are self-employed in private practice.

So to find a doula, you might use one of the searches that you might just Google, you know, a doula in my area, there are a few communities online community or platforms.

So there's like Doula Match or Meet your Doula or Born Beer.

And those are all places that if you are currently expecting or are going to be expecting, you might be looking.

So those are you can find providers, you can find midwives, you can find chiropractors, you can find other providers through that pregnancy period.

But most of the connections are through word of mouth, through people saying I had a doula or have you considered a doula?

The thing that I hear most often when I'm just out in the community, especially older people who are now are they have their their own children are having children and they're like, where was a doula when I had my children?

And and so the idea of a doula is actually not a new concept.

A lot of people are like, Oh, I've never had that before.

It's actually very ancient.

It's very doulas have been around for, you know, hundreds of years in a lot of cultures.

What's new about it is that especially when you think about women working in the workforce and also this entrepreneurial space, is that it's new to the United States as a profession.

So as I was even talking about, you know, 12 years ago, I was helping, doing a lot of the things I'm doing now, helping other women through their pregnancies, but I, I wasn't a formal doula, but that's that type of help in service to you.

There be other women in your family or other women in your community, in your tribal community and your geographic community that, that has been a, a long ancient practice.

And so to find a doula, one of the things that's been really important for me, especially in my area, you know, my service areas, I serve about an hour radius from Fond du Lac, which is a pretty large coverage when you think about I'm attending births.

So wherever that might be, the birth I just spoke about before was, you know, in Milwaukee.

So I'm driving an hour, it was a little over an hour to that birth.

One of the reasons that I want to really bring the understanding of a doula forward in, in practice is because there aren't a lot of doulas here.

So people don't know about what a doula is.

A lot of times there's a confusion between a doula and a midwife and they think I'm delivering babies.

And I always say like, I'm not holding babies, I'm holding Mamas.

Like I am helping the family through all the pieces.

But yes, I am attending.

I'm attending their birth.

One of the, I would say unique things about the doulas, especially as I described like people are hiring me, is that I work for the client in a hospital system.

I don't work for the hospital system.

And so I'm with a client during shift changes, provider changes.

You know, if it goes from an induction where they might have to bring or enforce forced labor to begin for lots of different reasons that might happen or AC section, we're actually having a surgical delivery of your baby or babies because it might be multiples.

I am there through all of that.

And so it is and I do a lot of preparation on the front end to get into the space so that families really understand what again, is going to be that birth experience.

We don't know what the outcome of how they will deliver, but the the choices they're going to have to make, thinking about the choices for their baby that they're going to have to make.

And so the more that I can talk about it and invite other people into the doula space, that's how we're going to help people better find a doula.

One of the big challenges and barriers is that because doulas are self-employed and it is really like a private service is the cost is in Wisconsin currently our state Medicaid system does not pay for doula care.

Some private insurance is due and it is for most HSA and FSA fund plans it's eligible service that you can have and be reimbursed for.

But most people are paying out of pocket, which does not help people have access.

So timber I want to change all that.

I want to make sure 14 states right now have programs that are state insurance pays pays for doula.

So it's it's coming, we hope, and I'm going to continue to advocate for that the way you're.

Talking about that, I'm going to assume Wisconsin is not one of those 14 states we are.

Not OK.

And that was we need to be, yes, I think anything that helps with birth period before and after and all along that pathway, like it's just too important and it's something you remember forever and you just want those experiences.

You want to feel supported.

You want to focus on the birth.

And that's the thing, exactly.

Not all of these other details, because once again, I'm just going to go back to that place of being terrified, you know, if I can just.

You sure you want to go back?

There you go.

I'm just.

Saying if, if, if I could just focus on the things and be present like I'm good.

Like that's all I really want to do.

I just want to be sure I'm hyper present for the earth.

Absolutely.

And that's where a doula can really hold the space to help translate some of the medical jargon, anticipate things that are going to happen.

A huge thing for me is around consent and being informed consent.

So often times in providers, they're going to do what's most comfortable.

And for them, it's more it's most comfortable, it's what they're familiar with, it's what they believe in.

So again, this is not at all the way that I'm talking is not at all to knock any providers because as anyone, I believe providers come into the space of, you know, delivering babies because they want to help women and help families birth a baby and be successful.

And I think that's the goal of everyone.

And with that, like any provider, we all have a different preference.

You know, you could go back to education, Teachers all teach different with the same outcome in mind.

It's not saying 1 is better or better or worse than the other.

Some are going to be a better match in some ways of learning.

And so in the, in the provider space or even your primary provider, some you're going to really gel with, you're going to be like, OK, this is my person.

And so I'm going to say I don't really like that the way that they're doing things.

So it's not that anyone is doing anything bad, although sadly, as in every profession, there are things that do cause harm, but I think the majority of providers are doing the they're, they're doing what they think is the right thing to do.

And so in that I want families to be able to recognize like, is this what I want?

Is this the, is this the way that I envision my, my birth?

And I want them to feel informed so that it's not a surprise.

As you're saying, things are happening usually fairly quickly.

There's a lot of decisions being made.

And it's like, if you don't even know, you have to spend a lot of energy and kind of even contemplating what the decision is at hand.

And so if we've talked about that before, you're going to make a better decision.

And so then when a doula is part of that birth team, they can bring all of that knowledge into into the space.

And going back to the informed consent, as I was talking about a little bit earlier, so providers will say things like, okay, now we're going to do something.

And what a lot of people don't understand is that anything in a medical setting included, you have the decision that you can say yes or no, you can decline procedures.

And again, it, it is, it's, it's your body, you have full control over your body.

And so you should have all the information so you can make the decision that's going to work for you.

And so it's slowing down the room.

It's asking, you know, is this OK?

I always say, this is what's being offered, you know, if it, you know, whether it be like a check during birth or procedure or getting an IV or whatever it might be like this is what they're suggesting.

Is this OK for you?

And so sometimes we, because we're just doing the work that we do, we don't always pause to ask.

And it and being informed is really important.

There are so many families that have experienced, even ones that I've been around that I didn't realize at the time that have experienced birth trauma and the, and it's a really growing body of research and understanding how trauma affects us.

And we know that in a lot of ways, but we don't always consider in the birth space and trauma.

There's a great book called the Body Keeps Score and it really talks about how trauma, we carry trauma with us and, and sometimes you might have a birth on paper that looks textbook.

Everything went as planned, and it looks like this was a great birth and a family can walk away feeling so traumatized because they didn't feel like they had their own.

They didn't feel informed, they didn't feel like they had power to make a decision.

They felt like things were being done to them.

But yet medically, it might look really solid.

And then you might have a family that on paper looks like a very complicated situation.

Looks could look, you know, somewhat scary.

There could be big things happening, and the family could walk away feeling so supportive.

So it's not about, you know, what should happen.

It's more about how does the family feel?

And that's where the birth doula really focuses their energy on how they're experiencing their birth.

And, you know, thinking about a partner, if a partner is involved, how involved do they want to be?

Do they want to be hands on doing, you know, something called hip squeezes during contractions and doing all the things, or do they want to, you know, take a, a different kind of role maybe?

Or do they want to be the one that's always talking to the provider or whatever it might be?

And so I really help find out.

I really try to find out what the provider or what the partner actually how they want to be involved and then how I can support that involvement.

And I might be teaching them a few things.

One of the things, the top things that I have taught is with partners not experiencing contractions is that during a contraction, we stop all movement.

So sometimes provide our partners really want to be hands on and they would be rubbing backs and that's amazing.

And during the contraction that can feel like the worst.

And so it's like, we just stop, you know, again, who how would they know that if no one explicitly really taught them that?

So that's really how I want to show up in in fill in the gaps in in where families, wherever they want to take their birth.

What?

Is a myth or a misunderstanding that people might have about doula doula ING?

Yeah.

Well, I think there's two that come to mind.

I think one, that all doulas are the same and all doulas are, are very different, even those who've been trained the same way.

So there's several training organizations that are out there.

I am trained by DONA, which is Doulas of North America, one of the largest doula organizations.

And I have, that's where I'm certified through as well.

And so there are doulas even within that organization or that have been trained by other organizations.

And all doulas are different.

So I show up very grounded.

I have a kind of a big charge, but I come in in a really humble way.

And so I'm very focused as well on like those perinatal mood disorders and postpartum depression.

That's the man to talk about at every appointment that I'm working with a family and that might not be someone else's, kind of like I might not click with somebody else.

And so when you're looking for a doula, I suggest to the clients who reach out to me, to everyone, interview a few doulas and find out kind of how do they doula because it is very different and you got to find someone who's a good match for you.

I say straight out in any interview, if I'm not your person, if this does not feel safe for you, if this isn't, if you feel like there's just something that's not clicking, please do not hire me.

Because the most important thing as a doula is to make sure you feel the most connected to your doula, safe and supported.

And I don't personally take any offense to that because I know that I'm not going to be everyone's doula.

So I think the idea that all doulas are the same is a big myth of like, oh, a doula just means this.

And it's so personal that you really have to find the doula for you.

And then the other, I would say myth.

And this has been something that has come to me even just this week when I had this unexpected birth, that doulas are there to demand something or to disrupt what's happening and in in the birth room.

And that's just there might be some doulas that is their experience.

Because I imagine because it comes to me and people are saying to me they're surprised that I don't.

They're like, do you get pushed back?

Or this nurse just the other day said, you know, I want to be pro doula, but I haven't had a positive experience with most doulas.

And I just want to say thank you for the experience that I had with you.

This really changes things for me.

And so I just wonder what's happened before that.

So I think this idea that or what even disruption looks like, I think for me, I slid on the room by asking clients things like, do you need more time or more information to make a decision?

It's not, it's a disruption because it might stop.

Like if a provider is like, we're going to do this, it, it disrupts it for a moment to give the family opportunity to get their head wrapped around what the decision is, the information they've just been provided, especially as things change.

But I think sometimes people think that doulas are here to say all, you know, medical providers are wrong or they don't know what they're doing or, or whatever it might be.

And so a lot of hospital systems are hesitant or, and I've had, I walked into a few birth rooms and the provider, the OB might not even acknowledge me or the, the nurse might kind of just give off an energy like, you know, let's see who you are.

And I, you know, I just say, OK, I can read that pretty well.

I'm here as part of the team.

It's going to take all of us to ensure that this family has a safe and healthy outcome.

And I really want to show up as a partner.

And so I think that's a big myth of how a doula shows up.

It's like it's going against the system.

And that that for some doulas, maybe that is the case.

But for this doula larisse, that's not the case.

And I really want to continue.

I, I don't think that that's serving our community as a doula community very well.

So I really want people to, to, to know that duels are here to be part of the birth team and to be a partner in the process.

And we all want the same outcome.

And unfortunately, not everyone has the same outcome, especially when I think about black and brown moms and families having the worst mortality rate, mortality and having infant mortality as well-being so high.

It's kind of a not a separate it.

It kind of leads in because of how their birth is and then kind of going into that postpartum.

But there's more practices and kind of thinking about those that first 12 months.

But I think because it's that part is around race, people get so prickly about it and think it's Oh, well, now it now has to be a thing.

And it and it's a thing because those are the facts.

That is the data.

And So what are we going to do about that?

And it, so much of it is that women are not being heard.

They're in the birthing space, they're saying something and it's being dismissed.

And so I, I really try to amplify that, bring that back up, You know, you know, they asked about this.

Where are we at on that?

You know, because.

I want the family, I want the, the birthing person, the Mama, the partner, the spouse.

I want them to focus on them, not all the other things.

And so I, you know, I'm taking copious notes.

I'm, you know, making sure again, bringing things back up, but I, I think that is a big kind of just circling back.

That is a myth that it's here to disrupt.

And so I'm here to get information that that we all can walk away with the outcome that we walked in with.

And that's a healthy and safe birth experience.

So Lorice, do you have a name for this business in particular or is it just Lorice's doing, do doing?

I wish I would have asked you before I named that.

I kind of like that larice doula doula now.

I got too many.

It's got too.

Many syllables maybe that I'll get my twisted up in my own words, but I like that like larice doula doula or something.

Well, but I did name my business Rooted Wings, and I do both leadership consulting and the birth doula business out of the same name because I really think about our root system.

When you think about a tree and you think about what you see above ground in the root system that holds that tree firmly in place.

And we all have a root system.

And that root system is also connected to our community.

And so the people around us who are nurturing us, who are feeding us, who are giving us the things that we need so that the tree can grow.

And then I think about the wings of really be able to spread your wings.

So through the transformation, whether it is as a leader and you're transforming into, you know, a more effective leader, really people centered leader.

If you're giving birth, if you're expanding your family, you really have the opportunity to kind of spread those wings.

And so when you have that root system nourished in the way that it needs to be, you find the strength that you do have.

It's not that I'm at all pretending that I'm giving people strength.

I give people nothing.

Ioffer space for them.

And so the idea that that root system is growing you to spread your wings and blossom and bloom and fly and all the things is, is how I came to name my business so.

What we're going to start wrapping up this segment.

So what is the last thing you would like to share with the Kosh listeners that maybe I didn't ask a question about about your topic of the week?

And then I think you should probably tell them how they can reach out to you.

Because I mean.

That's that's kind of important because somebody right now is listening and saying I need a doula, yeah.

I want a.

Doula.

She didn't even tell us how to get to her.

You know, I love that.

Yes.

All right, Yeah.

OK.

So I think the the thing I really want people to know is that everyone deserves to feel safe and supported in their birth experience.

I think one of the the things is just that people feel like, oh, do you only support, you know, one type of birth?

I support all births and not all doulas made, but support all births.

But I support if you're in a hospital setting, especially if you're in a hospital setting and you want to minimize any intervention, like if we didn't talk a lot about like pain management and things like that.

But if you want a hospital setting, whatever that looks like, I'm here to support you.

If you want a home birth, I'm here to support you.

So I think that is, is any birthing family, I want them to know that this support exists.

And it's not only, you know, if you are a first time parent or if you're a single parent or whatever, or if you're low income, it we all deserve this.

So I think that's just how I want to summarize that and to get in touch with me.

So I am the rooted wings birth doula.

I am on Instagram at the rooted wings birth doula and then also Facebook just by my name, Larry Snyder.

And soon I will actually just have a page dedicated to my birth doula work, providing information for families, providing resources.

And that's really where you can find me.

Fax.

OK, well, thank you, Laurice.

But now we got to start getting it getting into this episode.

That was the warm up.

There we go.

Wow, there we go.

We got all different places so far.

All right, so the next segment is called The Soapbox, and the Soapbox is an opportunity for our guests to just get on their soapbox and talk about something that they feel pretty passionately about right now.

So let's get on your Soapbox, all right?

All right, well, I feel like I've been on one soapbox around maternal health, but I'm going to jump to another soapbox, which is really about why can't we all just be a little more curious before we get furious.

I am I.

Like that?

Yes.

So recently I wrote a chapter in a book that is for consultants called We Wish You Would Have Known.

It's by the Madison Area Business Consultants Group and it was called Get Curious, Not Furious.

And my soapbox is just we just throw so much shade at one another and judgment and I don't understand why I people are amazing and we do more to push someone else away than we do to get to know someone else.

And I just feel like people like, let's, let's get more curious, let's ask more curious questions.

Let's not look at, you know, what's what someone believes or what, where they live or what kind of car they drive or whatever it is like that that is so outside of humanity.

And if we could just bring ourselves back to humanity and just get to know someone else.

I, that is my soapbox because honestly, I don't understand.

I, I feel like people, there's so much amazing things to know about people and we all do better when we all do better.

So I don't understand why we feel the need to be so.

And I'll say this like divisive, but in a way that like is intentional.

I think that there's sometimes harm is caused unintentionally because we don't know, but I feel like we sometimes really do a lot to, to just hate on one another.

So that's my soapbox.

Like let's get it together, people.

Let's, let's bring unity, let's bring conversation.

And so part of my consulting, it really is about how to do that because I think people are like, they only know how to hate.

They don't know how to love.

And hate is expensive.

Love is free, but people don't know.

They just don't know.

I like that that's true.

Hate is expensive.

It is expensive.

That was an awesome soapbox.

OK, next segment.

Next segment is called 21 questions.

We are going to ask some questions.

They are not 21 of them, but they are good deep questions that might get 21 answers.

So the first question, what motivates you?

I think what motivates me is the opportunity to make a change, whatever that is, to pour into someone else, to pour into my community that I know will change the outcome.

And I think of it in terms of, again, back to my rooted wings tree analogy, planting seeds.

So as I've matured as a professional and just as a person, I realize like the change might not happen and I might not see the change in my lifetime even but and knowing that that opportunity exists is what motivates me each and every day.

What does success look like to you?

Success for me is interesting.

I really think about fulfillment.

I feel like there's so many metrics of success you have, you know, this and that, and it's not all the same.

So it's hard to know like are you successful or are you not?

But when you feel fulfilled and you feel like you're doing the work you're supposed to do, I feel like that's success.

And, and to my earlier point, I think that's where I'm at right now.

It feels very successful because I feel very fulfilled.

What irritates you?

How much time do we have?

We we got feelings.

We got feelings.

Yeah.

I think the biggest thing that irritates me is is inefficiency.

And I think in terms of people in leadership consulting, and one of the things I talk about is the meeting after the meeting or the meeting before the meeting.

And it's like, can't we all just have the meeting that we're supposed to have and move on?

So I feel like we waste a lot of time doing all the things.

And if we had more skills, which is what I'm trying to help organizations and people do, we would just be able to sit down and have the meeting we're supposed to have.

So I think of it that way.

Think of redundancy that's unnecessary and so inefficiency back tied to my childhood.

It also comes up in terms of wasting money.

I really hate wasting money.

And if you ask my husband, he will tell you that is my number one, asking him a lot of questions about why are we doing this?

What is this?

What's the difference between these two models?

Because I I see that in the same, the same light.

So inefficiency.

What worries or scares you?

Related.

To my soapbox, I think the loss of humanity.

I think not seeing someone else or treating someone else in a way that they want to be treated, not seeing people as a full human, that scares me.

And I feel like we're flirting with that in this moment in our history of not seeing people as fully human.

And that is not a place I want to be in.

And in raising children and being in schools, that does scare me about what is, what our future could look like if we don't get it together, what are.

You grateful for.

Oh, I'm grateful for so much.

I try to wake up every day feeling grateful for a lot of things.

One, just to be able to open my eyes, feel myself, put my feet on the ground.

I'm grateful for my family, for sure.

I'm grateful for the resilience that I have had the opportunity to see throughout my life and to really embrace.

And I think overall, I'm just really grateful for people who have sacrificed so much so that I can have the freedoms that I have today, that I can live in the life that I want to live in.

Our history has provided A pathway for that.

And so just feeling really, really grateful for that.

What do you?

Want to be remembered for?

I I want to be remembered for making people feel their own worth.

I think my as my motivation in, in making a change, sometimes it's so easy to feel the weight of the world or the weight of what's happening and we don't see our own strength in that.

And I hope that my interactions with people, they see that and that they know that I see them, that they through whatever's happening and, and not the kind of Pollyanna, everything's going to be fine because it's not at all how I see things, but I am optimistic.

I am someone who wants them to see how much they're valued, how much they're loved, and their strength, especially when they can't see it themselves.

And I hope that I'm remembered for being that person.

And whether it be sparking a little light in a time of great darkness.

How do you define love?

I define.

Love as accountability for sure.

Which is maybe a funny answer, but I think about the accountability.

If I love someone or someone loves me, I want them to be accountable to making sure that I am living the best life I know how to live and vice versa.

And through that, love is also about that connection and I think an intimacy like no other.

So I think it might start out as somewhat of passion, but I think you get to a place of just trusting and that connection leads then to having that accountability.

So some of us might have grown up the idea of tough love and maybe didn't feel the connection or the love, they just heard the toughness.

But I feel like that accountability that I love you so much, I want you to be the best version of you.

And I would want someone who loves me to feel the same.

What is the most memorable life lesson you've learned from a parent, a guardian, or a mentor?

This.

Is so hard.

I feel like I've learned so many lessons and I've had so many people wrap their arms around me, which has been incredible throughout my entire life.

I think I will say because I think it just rings true.

If it were to bring it down to one lesson would have to be from my mom, Donna Freeman.

She died in 2008 and we didn't really get into this, but my experience growing up, I was we were very poor and would be a family that you would think, you know, has not a lot like, you know, you have nothing, you can't offer anything.

And my mom used to always say we may be poor, but we're not dumb.

And the world needs to us to use our voice so that we can make a change for others.

And I feel that that voice and always using it, amplifying my voice, amplifying the voice of others, I feel like that has been a lesson that I don't need to have all the things, but I have a voice.

And so I want to be able to use that.

And I know when to use my voice and I need to step in and when to step back and let others use their voice.

And I feel like that's just, it is a lesson that has shown me time and time again that that's that's exactly how I want to live my life.

And it has just proven itself over and over.

And the way that I've used my voice has changed.

So that's been kind of cool when I've had the opportunity to sit and actually reflect back and think about what that actually means for me.

OK.

Let me set the setting.

You have been asked to keynote a conference, an amazing conference of your peers and colleagues, right?

But you know, before you get out there and do that keynoting thing, we got to hype the crowd up.

We got to get them in the right set mindset.

What is your walk out song?

Ah.

This is so good.

Oh so many songs.

So the song that comes to top of mind would be the song it's called I Am Woman, and it's by Emmy Mellie.

And I, I didn't know this artist before I heard the song.

My sister, one of my sisters actually introduced me to it.

And she basically talks about how being a woman can be so many different things.

And so in a space, you know, kind of always looking for systems change, I feel like women, whether it be in the birth space, in the leadership space, in any space in the United States has like a defined way of what a woman should look like.

And she really breaks that down and talks about, I am woman, I am feminine, I am masculine, I'm electric, I'm a base, I'm anything I want.

And I feel like that really truly represents me, that just being in the space.

I don't want to be defined by others.

And so when I think about taking a stage, I want people to know that like, I am here, my full authentic self.

And while I've been shaped by all these experiences, absolutely, I'm not defined and I'm not limited to who they think I should be or who anyone thinks I should be.

I, I, I know who I am and that's the most important.

And so that song is really resonated.

And that's that's what I would walk out to.

You have survived 21 questions.

That was awesome.

OK, next segment.

Next segment is word association.

And so I'm going to say some words and you're going to tell us what comes to your mind.

All right.

And Larice, we got a long standing tradition here on the Kosh.

We have always started with the same word.

That is because this is the word of community, of family, of love, of friends.

That word is food, Yes.

Food.

Well, the first thing that comes to mind is something you've already said is, is community.

There is something so special about breaking bread together.

They're just there.

There is a food.

I think of warmth, I think of community, I think of nourishment.

That's all of that is what comes to mind.

Absolutely yes.

Community Okay then I gotta ask the sub questions now.

So what's our favorite food?

My favorite food, well, it it changes.

I love a good salad that sounds maybe like a little surface, but there's so much stuff that you can do with salad and I love the different combinations.

You know, as we're getting into the summertime, there's so many amazing summer salads and you can use all different types of, you know, dressings and different proteins and all the different summer flavors.

I like to do one of my favorite summer salads is this corn blueberry jalapeno.

It sounds really wacky, but it's so good because you have like corn on the cob that's been grilled and then it has that spice of a jalapeno and the blueberry, just the sweetest.

Yeah.

So that is so.

Yeah, that is something I I love a good salad.

And I love that you can in the same setting of community, you can't.

You can keep a salad together.

You can pull it apart.

You really can cater to the people in your space.

So that is one of my favorites.

Definitely a cocktail.

I my, I love.

I don't know this is this is so I am from California, but I, I think Wisconsin's got this on me because I do love a good Brandy old fashion.

So I love sweets with cherries and some really good homemade mushrooms.

I like them both in there.

So that would be my cocktail of choice.

Now it's a little heavy for the summer months, but there's a lot of little variations you can do.

But yeah, hands down, that is gonna be my cocktail.

OK, that's.

The go to shop local.

Yeah, so my go to for that, I love the farmers market.

I just again, being in community, having connection, being able to pour into one another, that definitely is my place to go.

But the other place is New Moon Cafe.

I like love that place.

I love, I love meeting clients there.

I love working there.

I love just sitting and watching people at New Moon Cafe.

So those would be my choices.

New Moon.

Is super cool, like super, super cool music so.

I love music, so the first thing that comes to my mind when I think about an association with that is dancing.

I use a lot of music and when I do professional development and presentations and workshops, I think it can break the ice.

Now I've had to expand my music selection because as I've been talking about.

What I like is not what everyone else likes.

And so, so I feel very proud when someone else gives me like, props on a song that is not what I would have picked in my own playlist.

And they're like, oh, I love this song.

I'm like, all right, I'm doing it.

I'm doing it.

But I, yeah.

So my, the first thing comes to my mind is I really just, yeah, I think about dancing and moving your body in any learning space.

You got to, you got to get that blood flowing.

And so I think music can do that and it can bring people together.

You know, you could be in a tense place and being able to to just get people moving and moving and grooving, which again, sounds a little funny, but I really believe in that.

OK, let me.

Dig in.

Yeah, you're.

Going to ask we aren't you?

Yes, I got.

To ask, OK, so when you are alone in the car and Laris is going hard, what's Laris rocking?

All right.

OK, so so I am definitely rocking my girl Alicia Keys.

I love Girl on Fire.

I love her song.

No one those Alicia Keys is going to be in my car for sure.

And if I'm going old school and if you ask my family, they would tell you I got to go back to Shoop and Little Salt and Pepper because there's just something about something about that era and those three women just being kind of, I don't know, they just brought it.

And so that gives me that.

That's my hype song when I'm getting to go somewhere that I got to get real hyped up for.

But yeah, Alicia Keys will be in my car 100% OK.

Well, you bringing up the shoop made me make sure that I want to send a special shout out to our man Rob Bass.

That's Rob Bass passed away.

That's sad to me.

Yeah.

You know how?

Sad, that is to me, because I mean, let's, let's not lie, that song made a party pop that made.

It did, yes. 8 to 80 I don't.

Care if you are a newborn and your grandmama?

Everybody got out for Rob Base, yes.

Yes, and it just brings you back.

You know, you kind of think again.

Yeah, it brings you back.

So I'm glad we brought him forward.

Oh yeah.

Into the space.

Most definitely streaming so.

The first thing, well, I think of YouTube both in times of just, that's where I, I do keep a lot of lists, different music lists and whatnot.

For some reason they, that's been something I started with, I stayed with and I'm doing trying to get my kids off YouTube so they love YouTube.

So that's what I think about that.

And then the other thing that just comes to my mind is thinking of instant, like the instantaneous on demand all the time.

It's just like another word I think about when I think about streaming because I feel like everything is so instant and when you, like me, want to be in community, it's not as instant.

So I feel like that's a little bit of a conflict in our in our community right now.

Last word community this I feel like it we're full circle I was.

Just going to say, yeah, full circle.

I think connection, I think belonging.

I think of, you know, one of the things that I want to keep, I want to say preserve, but I love a good neighborhood.

I love the neighborhood I currently live in.

I love that my kids can go outside and play with the neighbors.

I love that I know my neighbors and know their names.

I'd love that we shovel each other's driveways and mow each other's lawns and water each other's flowers.

So I feel like that is that full circle for sure.

I think of the people I'm with.

OK, well you have survived word association.

Next segment.

The next segment is called the kosh hidden gems.

That does not mean that your hidden gem has to be in the kosh.

It can be anywhere.

But we are looking for those hidden gems that maybe everybody knows about, but maybe they don't know some really cool details about, or maybe it's something that you don't think a lot of people know about at all.

What is your hidden gem?

Yeah, I think there's a lot of hidden gems.

Being someone who's just finding to be present wherever I am, you can find so many amazing things and you can be at a space multiple times and it have such a different feel when you're really present.

But as a service provider myself, I really am in tune to other providers.

And I think in a time where we do feel like we rush to judgement and to see things that are wrong before we, you know, really promote something that's right, I feel like we are way more likely to talk about all the bad things that have happened and something good.

So I think a hidden gem is actually another service provider.

And this might be kind of a funny answer, but Oak Park Dental, they so they have been my family dentist for about 12 years.

And when I first went there, it was really just like looking for a dentist in the area.

I was kind of giving my history about living in Oshkosh and I had a fear of going to the dentist.

So as a kid, being on Badger Care and not having great access, as you know, to the providers I wanted or to the care I wanted or needed, I only kind of had, you know, what was urgent or necessary.

I didn't have great dental care.

And so as a result, as an adult, it's, you know, of course, the impact is that much later.

So I actually developed a fear about going to the dentist and before I became pregnant, I really wanted to, that was important because you're actually your dental health really impacts you way more than you think.

And during pregnancy you can have some really substantial negative impacts.

And so I was asking around and Oak Park Dental, I think they were, I don't know if they had been in existence, but they had new dentist and it was a husband and wife team.

And I went there and had the most amazing experience and their service was so good.

And I didn't, I felt like it was so genuine and I felt no shame about the fact that I had not been to the dentist in a long time.

I felt like it was a very welcoming community.

And they've expanded now and our whole family goes there.

They remember things about things that you talked about the last appointment, they're checking in about how how things are going, you know, very chaotic schedule.

So if I have to reschedule again, they understand the human side of yes, they're running a business and they have things they need to do, but they understand the other piece.

And so it's a small segment if you're looking for a new dentist, but I think that that is a hidden gem because that's not the kind of service that I typically get in a lot of places.

And so again, I'm thinking about that service.

We're quick to judge.

And so I want to uplift another service provider who I think is really doing it right and doing amazing things and building community and also, you know, healthy dental hygiene, which does impact your life way more than we think.

Where are they located?

They're located, it's in the, I think it's in the strip mall.

It's on Washburn.

I believe they are.

I'm trying to even think it's like down the road a little bit from from the Enterprise, like right there.

I'm trying to think cuz there's like 3 strip balls kind of in a row.

I know you pass Red Robin.

I don't even know what the address address is, but that's where they're they're located right in that little section there.

OK, so.

They're in the cash.

They.

Are yes OK?

Next segment.

The next segment is called Story Time.

And story time is an opportunity for our guests to tell the cash listeners a story.

So Maurice, what's your story?

What's?

My story, I feel like I've provided a lot of my stories.

Definitely got it.

I took a little bit, yes.

Yes, so one.

Of the stories, I think that that comes to mind is so I grew up in the Green Bay area and I went to school Aldo Leopold.

That was a Montessori type school.

So it was very different.

It was a public school, but just very different than the the kind of traditional elementary and middle school.

So I went there through 8th grade and then I went to Green Bay West High School for high school, the public high school that was connected to where I live.

And I was in a geometry class my freshman year, which I didn't know what the time was, so to speak, advanced for the math curriculum.

I at the alternative school that I went to, Aldo Leopold, we worked at our own pace.

So it wasn't, we didn't, we just worked at our own pace that we didn't we weren't in competition with anyone else but ourselves.

In my first day of school, my teacher, Missus King, went around the whole class and said, all right, first day, I want to know where are you going to college and what do you want to study?

And I had never been asked that question before.

So as it got to me, I was kind of like, I don't even really know many colleges.

Now there are some colleges in Green Bay and I'm like, you know, I don't think I'm going to college.

So it got to me and I said very matter of factly, Miss King, you don't know me very well.

You're just getting to know me, but I'm not going to college.

And she kind of looked back and I said, well, you know, my family were poor and, you know, and I'm black and I, I don't think that's who goes to college.

And she was, she was a white teacher.

And she just had such a look on her face, like she was so surprised that I that I had said that to her.

Just her response was, you are going to college and I'm going to make sure you get there.

And it was the first time again, one that someone not only just like asked me where I was going to college, but the idea of even seeing myself in college.

And so after that I met with her and she she was like, were you kind of kidding?

I'm like, I, I was not.

I really don't think that that's who goes to college.

I don't know anyone who looks like me who goes to college.

I didn't know anyone who was college educated and so she got me enrolled in a program called Upward Bound, which is one of the federal TRIO programs that helps students who have not were underrepresented in higher education.

There's a few other programs, but I got enrolled in that program and they really helped me give the experience and understanding and connection to college campuses.

So even things like traveling, you know what had not really traveled, My family didn't go on family vacations, planning for things, getting good study habits, all of those things.

And so she worked with me, got me in this program and I did graduate high school and she was there and I graduated college with my bachelor's degree and she was there.

Then I went on for my master's degree a few years later.

And the reason why the story is so impactful is because now I see what she saw.

Like, at the time, I really just thought like, why did she ask me about college?

You know, and maybe that's just what she's supposed to do.

And what she saw is an opportunity.

She realized I did not see that for myself.

And I think about my wanting to give to my community and again, being motivated by making a change.

She wanted to put me in a place that was very different than I could ever imagine.

And if it wasn't for her to get me thinking about that, I don't know if I would have went to college.

I certainly would have been working for four years in high school, and maybe it would have been.

I got to senior year not knowing what I wanted to do.

Maybe it would have ended up in college.

I think I learned how to do school well eventually, but I just think about the idea that especially for children, we can't be what we can't see.

And now in the space of working with adults, we can't be what we can't see.

And so if you don't know that something else exists, you never are going to pursue it.

You're never going to be inquisitive.

You're never going to be curious and you when someone has that level of what I experienced high expectations with high support, Sometimes we come in with just high expectations.

We just say, well, everyone has to achieve this or I'm just keeping my high expectations, but we don't actually give the support.

And she did that because she recognized she saw who I was.

She realized this is not on her radar.

She might not have the skills and how can how could she help me?

And so that is just something that I think about it because I take that with me day in and day out.

And then the fact that she was at my college graduation, she kept to her word, which is something in a lot of families like mine.

That wasn't something people would say things all the time.

You never believe them because empty promises, broken promises.

That was pretty regular.

And the fact that eight years later she was right there, standing there while I cross the stage for my college graduation.

So that's that's a story that I feel like is so paramount to how I got to the place I'm in and how I want to show up for others.

I can't stress, I don't always think people understand when we talk about representation and the need for representation because representation, I think sometimes people think you just want it for the sake of wanting it or they, they don't understand the correlation to the importance of it and what the importance of it is.

One of the importances of it is, is it gives you the ability to dream.

You know when you see individuals that you identify with for whatever reasons, whatever those identities are that you connect with and you see them doing things that you didn't envision because you hadn't seen Someone Like You do it, The the floodgates open, the doors open yet and then it's possible that's.

Possible that in living in that possibility, I want to bring that possibility.

And that is if you're 14 years old or if you're 44 years old, possibility exists.

And so if I can play a small role in helping people see their possibility, that's exactly where I want to be.

That's.

Huge, That's absolutely huge.

Well, at this time, Larisa, I want to take a moment here and we're not done.

So don't think this is done.

We we got things to still do, but I do want to take this moment and say thank you for spending time with us here on the cash thank.

You and thank you for the opportunity and the conversation.

I very much have enjoyed it and I have really been reflective even as I'm, I'm speaking to you today, just reflective on kind of what's next.

And without this conversation, I don't know if I'd be sitting in this in this place.

So thank you.

All right, cash listeners, you know what that means?

That means we are going to start wrapping up this episode.

So what I want to say to you is thank you, thank you, thank you.

Thank you for spending time with us.

Thank you for giving us your minds and ears.

Thank you for getting that know another amazing community member out here, making our community a better place, making a difference.

We went to some pretty important places in this conversation and I loved it.

Kids are the future and we talked about them on all sorts of different levels.

We talked about from from conception, we talked them from the birth and then we talked about the education of them.

And this was just a fantastic conversation.

And now we know that we got somebody out here doing that work on all the levels.

So whether you need somebody to help with your birth and you need a doula or maybe you need somebody to bring, you need somebody to bring into your conversation so it can be more thoughtful, it can be more informed, it can be more strategic.

I think we found all that in this conversation.

All right, so you already know what I'm going to say and that is this.

We are trying to become the number one podcast in all of Wisconsin, but it can't do that without your help.

So while you're listening to this conversation and you're thinking Timber, you need some new segments.

I need you to ask these questions over here.

You should let me know.

Or maybe you're thinking I want to sit in the chair.

It's time Timber, I need to sit in the chair and you know what I'm saying?

Please do.

All you got to do is let me know either way and you can let me know by emailing me at askthekosh@gmail.com. onceagainthatisaskthekosh@gmail.com.

That is how we got today's guest was a nice little reach out con attacked.

And I just let you know I do respond to all all reach outs and we try to make things happen because these conversations are super important.

Can't think of a better thing or a more important thing than to know your neighbors and the talents and the skills that they're sharing with our communities.

All right.

Also I would love it if we could get in front of more eyes and ears so people can hear these conversations.

And the way we do that is called analytics.

So while you're listening to us and you see that button that says subscribe, you should probably press that.

Or if there's an opportunity to give us stars, give us 5.

Or if you're really a go getter and I appreciate you when you do, go ahead and write us that review.

These are all things that increase our analytics.

And the better our analytics are, the more people learn about this amazing podcast known as the Kosh.

OK, so we are going to get ready to do our next thing here and I think you know what's coming up.

Let's try this out.

When you hear that, you know it is shout out time.

So, Louise, who's your shout outs?

All right, Well, as we've been talking about education throughout our session today, I definitely want to give a shout out to all of those graduates.

So from 4K to PhDs, if you've graduated this season and just a huge shout out, brace your accomplishments, go be great and know that you have an incredible world ahead of you to make a change and make a difference.

I think second, I want to shout out Kim Walters from Yes, and as I mentioned, for being such a great friend and colleague in this entrepreneurial space.

We have been doing some incredible things together and I have loved that.

Thanks.

Shouting out to Amber Killowie from the United Way of Fond du Lac County for doing all the things and bringing people together and doing what we need all of our leaders to be doing.

So definitely want to give a shout out to her and to my doula friends.

I hope that doula friends feel just as empowered to keep doula ING as Timber has brought forward.

So he didn't even know that was a word.

And now he knows who will consider you a friend as well.

But to all my doula friends, just a shout out to the incredible work that you're doing in the spaces that you're occupying and the changes that you're trying to make.

And to my family, I just a huge shout out to allowing me to follow this path.

As I mentioned, it's it has been peaceful in the sense of the right work and chaotic in the sense of how we going to get there.

And so my family has been incredibly supportive and allowing me to be on this path right now and especially to my husband Pete.

And lastly, but very importantly to you, Timber for having this platform to get to know your neighbor, to increase community.

And this has been an incredible conversation, so definitely want to shout you out as well.

Thank you.

I appreciate that.

Well, my shout outs for this week, want to send a shout out to Lawrence University, particularly the diversity business class.

I work with them.

I actually, we produce another podcast with them and it's part of the class.

The students go out and as part of the class and the curriculum, they go out and they interview businesses of color in in the Fox Cities.

And these interviews and my gift to them, because it's a partnership between Lawrence and the city of Appleton, my gift to him is I edit their episodes for him, but they come to City Hall and they record because we have our podcast studio in City Hall.

And these conversations, these interviews have just been fantastic between these students and these entrepreneurs.

And the depth of the questions and the curiosity and the stories of these entrepreneurs who decided to build their businesses here in the Fox Cities is just fantastic.

It's a different level of community building and it's just super cool.

So I just want to send, send a thank you to those students and those professors who are the ones that are making this partnership happen.

Want to send a congratulations to my man Ivor for graduating from Fox Valley Tech Ivor, I see you.

I appreciate you.

If you want to know a little bit about Ivor, you know what you need to do, you need to go to Timber dashties.com because Ivor is the young man, the young 19 year old who designed my entire website, which is fire.

So Ivor, I appreciate you.

I want also want to send a special shout out to the page Advisory Board, the Advisory Board of School Public affairs and Global engagement at UWO.

They've asked me to be part of this committee.

I'm honored.

I thank you.

I just like how UWO is kind of, you know, they're getting ready to do big things.

I just see really promising things on the horizon and I think they're ready for it.

And I really like the movement that's being done by their leadership at this time.

Want to send a shout out to Appleton for the Resident Leadership Academy.

And this is something where the people, and you don't have to be necessarily from Appleton, but you get to come in and you get to spend 11 or 12 weeks learning about the different departments in the city of Appleton.

And you know what happens?

You appreciate your taxpayer dollar more.

Most people walk away from it and say we're not paying enough taxes because it's easy to assume and it's easy to ignore when you don't know.

But when you know, you feel very differently then.

And the people behind the scenes who make amazing things happen.

As a person that works for a city, what I think happens is when things work well, it's easy to ignore what it takes to make things run well, period.

All right, And lastly, I had a long list this week, but I guess my other weeks have been kind of short.

So me, I was making up for it.

But lastly, I've got to send a shout out to my wife for continuing to let me make this podcast in the house, baby.

Thank you and I love you.

All right, Laurice, we are almost done, but we got one last thing to do here before we wrap it up and it is this.

You get some multiple choice options, an AB and AC.

All right, all right, Option A you can share with the cash listeners some parting words of wisdom.

Option B you can tell the cash listeners what would yourself today tell your 13 year old self and option C all good.

Multiple choice has an all of the above and so we do too.

So that's awesome.

So you could do both all.

Right, Well, yes, and has been part of the day today, so I'm going to do both.

I think what I would tell my 13 year old self would be your dreams are not too big.

I think that's most important.

I think it's easy to be told no and to minimize.

And at some point when we were little, we dream big and we lose that in middle school, and then we carry that small idea of what we could be.

So I would tell myself your dreams are not too big and go chase them.

I think my words, my last words of wisdom, be a great neighbor.

Be a good, kind human being to one another and lift others up.

And if you haven't lifted someone up today, as you hear this episode or any other episode, do something that you can lift somebody else up.

Because we're all in it.

We're all trying to make it.

Our world is better when we're all doing better.

And it's such a small lift, but if we each carry that, we will be a better place in a better community.

And so go be great and do that.

All right, okay, Laurice, what you think this was?

So fun.

We went all up and down and all around places I didn't know we were going to go, so that's awesome.

Wait.

That's the cash.