Episode 186: Vicki Updike - Founder & CEO of New Sage Strategies

Hello and welcome to The Kosh.

I'm your host, Timber Smith, and the Kosh is a podcast that spotlights the people who've had an association with the Kosh in the surrounding Fox Cities region.

Kosh listeners, how are you doing today?

It is another fabulous day here, another fabulous weekend day here in Kosh Studios.

You know, I tend to just continue to make up more Kosh things as we have more episodes.

First, let me say thank you for joining us on podcast day, which, you know, always makes me super happy.

OK, the rundown.

It is a beautiful spring day.

It is sunny.

It is crisp, but not not that crisp where you're cold, just, you know, nice cool.

Actually some of my favorite weather cause not quite ready to give up flannels.

This is perfect flannel mother.

So you know, I'm I'm not mad about this.

Also consolations.

You already know, hopefully some of y'all are connected with me on social media, but you already know Timber has a business that sponsors these episodes and that business is called Timber Ties and we've been doing some things out here.

I'm happy to share with you that Timber got his first small business grant, which is fantastically huge to me.

It's not a huge grant, but it's still a huge deal.

Just keeping it 100 with y'all, but nonetheless, be sure to go check us out.

We are rolling into a wedding season.

I believe Timber Ties is the perfect accessory for for those individuals out there who might need something distinct for their wedding, whether you're a guest or whether you're a groomsman or anyone else for that matter of fact.

All right, so, oh, and that's timber-ties.com.

OK, now what I want to share with y'all is this.

So in this particular episode, what ended up happening was we did an episode and we were making magic.

We were making magic and the equipment failed and we were so far down the line that we couldn't just like pick up and continue from where we're at.

So I got an opportunity to bring this guest back again because they were kind enough to come sit back in the chair.

So I appreciate them so, so much for doing that.

And in this case, this means even more when I say I don't know how we continue to get these amazing, amazing guests here on the couch.

But this week won't be any different.

So without any further ado, this week's guest is Vicki Updike.

Hey, Vicki, what's going on?

Hi Timber, glad to be here.

Yes, yes.

Thank you for coming back.

You're so right about a beautiful morning, so beautiful today in Wisconsin.

Oh yeah, it's cool.

Like it almost makes me want to grill something.

Well, you know, it is a little cool, but the sun is warm, so it's just we haven't felt that in a while.

So it feels good.

You're right, because we we've had a series of kind of gloom days in these last couple of days, right?

OK, well, Vicki, you sound like you're ready to to make magic happen a second time with me, right?

Let's do this.

Let's do this.

OK.

Well, Vicki, can you please tell us about yourself and your association with the Kosh?

Sure.

Yeah, I'm Vicki Updike.

So I actually was born here in Northeast Wisconsin, in Green Bay.

And you know, through my career, it took me out of Northeast Wisconsin.

And you know, I, when my kids were small, I really made it a point to come back to northeast Wisconsin and really wanted to raise my kids here.

And so I had a wonderful opportunity in Oshkosh that brought me back up to Northeast Wisconsin.

And so, you know, it's just been an amazing journey.

And my kids were small when we moved up here and, and you know, my goal for them to know their family and to be close to their cousins and all of that and, and it, you know, it worked.

My son was the best man in his cousin's wedding this past year.

And you know, so northeast Wisconsin is a special place.

Oshkosh is a special place.

I had a wonderful career here.

And you know, it just it, you know, we have so much right here.

It's amazing.

Facts.

You know, I was having a conversation with somebody the other day and we kind of referred to Northeast Wisconsin as the boomerang capital where people that you know, because people, you know, when you grow up here, sometimes you feel like you got to spread your wings a little bit, but then you go spread your wings and you're kind of like, you know, oh, kind of had a good where we were at.

I'm going to kind of boomerang back there and be around family and friends.

You are so right.

You know, I, it was at my son's high school graduation that the principal actually said, go out and do good in the world and you know, be amazing.

But when you are ready to raise your kids, bring them back here because we want, we want to educate your kids.

And that was so powerful to me because I see it too.

It happens.

My daughter was on the West side of the stage.

She was kind of being pulled to the Minneapolis area.

And, you know, and a few years ago she said, mom, I think I'm going to move back.

And I was just like, Oh my gosh, she's going to move back.

And but she boomeranged back and lives here in the area and you know, is, is doing very well.

So I love to see it.

I boomeranged and I had someone, you know, one of my kids boomerang.

So it's been.

You're absolutely right.

Well, you know what?

I'm hoping that your boomerang energy happens to rub off on my daughter.

So Boo, if you are out there and you just happen to want a boomerang back home to the cash, the cash loves you.

Come home back, baby.

Absolutely, Absolutely.

I haven't won that battle yet, though.

No, she loves where she's at and I'm happy for her.

Yeah, OK.

You we went into very briefly.

Well, actually you just lightly mentioned here in the intro about this really cool career.

Can we talk about it?

Let's talk about it.

Yes, because there's nothing little about it.

All right, Vicki, let's go.

You make.

Me laugh yeah, you know, I so I, you know, my career was great.

I worked for really wonderful companies.

The first company that I worked for out of college was actually American Girl and it it was back when it was still owned by Pleasant Roland, the founder.

And it was a wonderful experience and really was able I was able to experience leadership in a really awesome form right.

They listen to people, they asked for feedback, they did all the right things.

And so that was a wonderful place to start my career.

The second one was not so great, and it was kind of the opposite of the leadership I saw at American Girl.

And so I still stayed there for a few years.

And it was when I was at that company that I decided I need to move back to northeast Wisconsin.

So I went on to monster.com.

I know that ages me.

Yeah, until you said it, I forgot about that.

So it was good old monster.com.

I was just, I had a bad meeting and I had a bad, you know, it was just one of those moments when you're like, what am I doing here?

Why am I, you know, spending my valuable time at a company that I don't respect?

And I had one of those moments.

So I went back to my little cubicle in the world and I went on to monster.com.

I searched for my marketing position in northeast Wisconsin and up popped the position at Miles Kimmel.

And I applied for that job within that half hour.

And and so that night, the vice president of HR called me.

Now, mind you, I have two small kids and it was 6:00 at night.

So anybody with small kids knows 6:00 is kind of a chaos hour.

Oh.

Facts.

Right, so I am on my landline talking to Miles Kimball, right the the company Miles Kimball and I am stretched my landline cord into the bathroom and I shut the door to try to keep the chaos on the other side and have a conversation.

But I had a great conversation, a great vibe going and you know, and was able to secure an interview.

So I am right.

So I had seen some of the best leadership I've seen, right?

I've seen some of the worst leadership that I experienced.

And so I loaded up my blue minivan with my Bon Jovi CDs, right?

And again, I know it ages me and I made the the trip up to Oshkosh to interview for the Miles Kimball position.

And so I was ready to go, right?

I was ready to to emulate the good, learn from the bad and really take this to my new role and started at Miles Kimball just a a few weeks later.

So it's, you know, when I was there for 14 years.

You know, Vicki, the thing that that out of everything you said, there's going to be people listening to this episode and they're going to say cords and phones.

You took a corded phone to the bathroom.

What is that?

I know well, and I actually had to put CDs in my minivan to play music, right?

I mean, this is right.

This is a few years ago and.

People will never understand our struggle.

Well, I want to go back to the leadership of of the second opportunity that you had of the second company.

And I want to ask, was it a culture thing or a leadership thing?

And I asked that specifically like, because as I've gotten older, I'm super picky about my leaders.

Like if I if, if I have a bad inkling about my leader or whatever, I just, no matter how good the opportunity is, I can't go down that path because of how I have to, I have to be able to respect the leader.

I have to be able to buy into the vision or their methods.

But sometimes it's a culture thing.

Which was it?

Yeah, so in my experience, right there was, there was 4 executives and they were just suits that walked around the office.

They didn't enter, they didn't interact with us.

I don't think I heard the president speak live the whole time I was there.

It was just and so they were very, they just kept themselves in meetings behind closed doors most of the day.

And it I struggled to know where I fit, right?

What was the value that I was creating in this organization that fit to where it was going?

I had no idea.

So I also see that leadership is the one that drives the culture.

You cannot have culture when the leadership of the organization is different, right?

There's no such thing as different cultures between the leaders and then the rest of us, right?

So I think they, it is what they emulated and it was very much, you know, heads down, do your business right, do your thing.

And I, you know, I am more about collaboration.

I want to get to know the people around me.

I want to know the value I'm creating for you.

And I just was never able to get it there.

Well, now I'm going to pivot back to Miles Kimball, right, Because we, we get, I heard the number 14 thrown out there, right?

And we started in this one space.

Where did we end?

Right.

So I my last eight years at Miles Kimball was at as president of the organization and it was it, it was an, an amazing journey.

And to have that opportunity in Oshkosh was, you know, really the the shining moment of my career.

Miles Kimball was really a big deal around here.

Can we talk a little bit about that legacy?

Yeah, let's talk.

You know, I, you know, Miles Kimball was a person, Alberta Kimball.

I mean, these were people that really had a vision for not only the business that they they started and created, but for their role here in the community.

And, and it was, it's that legacy and that corporate citizen that was so important as I moved into leadership at Miles Kimball is to keep that that interaction with the community, the value we could bring back into the community.

You know, we are people at Miles Kimball, we're from Oshkosh.

These are the people in the grocery stores and their kids were on the soccer fields.

And, and it meant a lot to us to be able to be in those spaces in those environments.

So it's it's really has a fabulous legacy here in Oshkosh, Yeah.

What's it like to be in the big chair?

Because I had to think that's something I don't know if people always actually get to talk to somebody who sits in the big chair, right.

I've been lucky enough that I've, I've worked closely with leaders in big chairs.

What would you share about sitting in the big chair?

Yeah, You know, so there's a component of pride, so right.

Not just for, it's not about my pride for me, it's the pride of the organization and the pride of the team.

So.

So there is that.

There's a little bit of do I know what I'm doing right?

There is always that imposter syndrome.

And so there is that.

There's the lonely component because you have very few people to talk to about the hard things.

And so that, you know, that's real, you know, and, and through all of that, the most important thing I found is developing the leaders in the organization because they their effort, their knowledge, their fabulous, you know, energy is what makes the company what they are.

So it wasn't about me, it was about creating that form of leadership throughout the organization.

But yeah, you know, it was, you know, and it for me, moving up through the organization, right, was a journey.

And some of the people still saw me as what I was when I started.

And that's OK, right?

I want to be authentic.

And so the persona of being president is, is a, is a heavy load to carry.

And it wasn't until a few years into my my president that as I was in that role that I realized I don't need to carry that anymore and just be me.

And that was, and that was really a great moment when I was able to like just be me.

That has to be yeah, right.

Well, you know, we were.

So at the time, Miles Kimball was owned by a public company in on the East Coast.

So those were the people I reported to.

So every quarter I had to go out to the East Coast and present our results and our marketing plan and our strategic plan and, you know, do all of that.

You know, and I'm just this girl from Green Bay, WI that literally is worrying about if anybody's shovel in her driveway that night, you know, in these boardrooms and, you know, the big black leather chairs, the mahogany paneling, the podium.

I mean, you, what you picture, it's all there.

So that right.

So I had to turn around and be that executive, which I was able to do, but my comfort was coming back home and being the the leader and the person that the team could depend on and trust.

For those people out there, what I've learned is the Kasha actually has a young person audience and they they like listening to these people in the community, maybe people they know or are educator, whatever.

They're where, however they move around in the community and they're familiar with them.

What could you share with someone, maybe young or old, whose dreams are to be in the chair?

Yeah, well, I would say, you know, stay focused and, you know, but, you know, it's not about knowing your end game today.

And because each step we take, we learn and grow and we may, you know, continue to evolve in a way that we can't see right now.

So one is I would stay, ask them to stay curious, right?

Learn as you go.

And it's not it's not the confidence to get there.

It's that courage to continue to take the steps to get there.

And because, you know, confidence is something that comes and goes.

And I would say even as president of an organization that I've been doing it for years, I still was lacked confidence at times.

Every No one is 100% confident 100% of the time.

Facts.

And so let's try it.

Let's stop pretending.

And so it's just the courage to be in the room.

It's just the courage to speak up.

It's just the courage to advocate for someone.

You know, it's those things.

And really what I would say is there are these opportunities right here in our backyard.

They are there.

So you know it's it's possible.

OK, So I'm going to pivot a little bit now.

AI don't know what your topic of the week is, but maybe this will be covered in the topic of the week.

So you don't have to go that deep.

But I'm going to ask you, Vicki, what are we doing now?

Yes, Yeah, I took a pivot, right.

Talk about a pivot.

Yeah, You know, I, there came a time I never thought I would leave corporate, right?

I, I, I really, truly enjoyed my role.

But what I enjoyed about it was leading the people, really building up the people, right?

That leadership development that, you know, so it took a while, but I started my own company and, and went out on my own.

And so today I do executive coaching, strategic planning and really and, and, and bringing that to other organizations and other people.

So it's, yeah, it was a significant pivot.

OK, are we going to give them a name?

So my, my company's name is New Sage Strategies.

And you know, when I started, I started with a resource group and the first resource group that I put together for New Sage Strategies was of women presidents.

Because as I mentioned earlier, one of the things that I struggled with this, I didn't have people to talk to about the hard things.

And I really, this group is really, they built the trust and the vulnerability to lean into each other and really help each other and support each other.

And I'm very proud of that environment that was that I'm able to bring those leaders.

So, you know, it's really seeing the challenges that I had throughout my career.

We're still there and it motivated me to truly step in and help and support these mostly women.

So I, you know, I work with and coach many different women throughout the region today and it's amazing.

Coaching is the best.

It is.

Like it's so rewarding and I don't know, I do some coaching and I learned a lot about me.

It makes me better.

For sure.

You know, I, I encourage coaching as a leadership style as well, right?

So coaching isn't about telling you the answer.

It is about reflecting back on you, what you emulate and help you see the value and what you can bring to different situations.

And, you know, and so often we don't believe it, right?

We get compliments and people will will, you know, kind of brush them off like, oh, they don't know what they're talking about, but we'll take the criticism and we'll believe every word of it.

And so it is really, you know, hearing those, those compliments and those, you know, those, those moments and believing them and remembering them as as firmly as we remember the negative.

So to reflect that back, you know, is is really awesome, but also Timber, you know, it is about standing back and watching them be successful and do their thing in the community.

That brings me such pride.

I don't need to be out there, right?

And for the people I work with to be propped up around this region and is really, is really a wonderful moment for me.

We have an audience.

Yes, let's how different is it running your own business versus running someone else's business theoretically, right.

How is?

How is that transition going?

Oh my gosh, talk about a vulnerable moment.

So, you know, I am leaving a great company, a great team of people, a, you know, a great title, right?

And I step out on my own all by myself.

And now I am just Vicky out there and with, you know, so that was a super vulnerable moment saying, well, who am I?

Why do I feel I can do this, right?

And then you are your own admin, your own IT department, your own sales department, right?

It's just like I want to help people.

And so there's a whole other, you know, there's other things that come with it.

But with all of that, the positives far outweigh the negatives for me, right?

I don't technology today is still not my thing.

So find the right people to work that.

But you know, the the positives of working with people, seeing the light bulb go on and then having that moment that they know what to do next.

And it's just is why I do what I do.

OK, well, now I think I can ask this question and I think I think we've gone through some things.

If you weren't doing what you're doing right now, what would you like to be doing?

What's what would be the the ultimate dream?

Yeah, so, well, maybe he's sitting on a beach with a beverage with an umbrella straw in it.

Maybe.

But yes, that that's out there.

You know, I don't know if I'd change what I'm doing.

The beauty of what I do is that I can make those decisions every day.

I can decide who to work with and where to be.

But also on this journey, I started a women's leadership conference and you know, that came out of I was, I was invited to the Forbes Women's Business Summit in New York, the last one of the last years I was in in my corporate role.

And I didn't go, but it looked like an really an amazing event.

And I think it was.

I think Michelle Obama literally spoke at it that year.

I know.

But I'm looking at that.

And I'm like, so women's summits are a thing.

So I started kind of looking around and there's a few of them.

And I'm, I had the idea.

I'm like, you know, we have really awesome women here in northeast Wisconsin.

Yeah, we do.

What if we pull a day together where they could come together and, and, you know, learn and grow.

And that's where the Women's Leadership Conference was founded.

And we had it our first year in 2019.

Put a fabulous day together, really went out to a few of the corporate companies that I've worked with.

And I said, if you believe in this, I will make it happen.

And they did.

And, and 2019 was the the 1st and we will be having that conference again in 2026, you know, and in October and we will most likely have around 1000 women attending the women's leadership conference.

So, you know, I do these things right?

And these are passions of mine.

So I don't know if I would do things differently because I have the freedom right now to really make those choices.

And I love that.

And so I other than the umbrella drink, you know, I'm, I'm really in a good place, Timber.

We're not going to just slide by that Vicky.

OK, we got to talk about this conference a little bit now.

All right.

We just not going to slide through that because you know, that is actually how I ended up meeting you was some of my my Co workers and my partner in crime shout out to my girl Andy out there doing big, big things.

But when they they went to your women's conference and when they came back, they were buzzing, like just buzzing with a just being in the room full of all of these professional women.

It felt, it felt like they belong.

From what I understood from the way they talked about it, they felt safe to be authentic in that space.

Like seriously, I, the energy that they brought back from it gave me pause and I had to ask some questions because, you know, I want to know.

I want to know what I, you know, what am I missing out on?

And then they tried to talk me into going and I said, I'm scared.

So no.

Oh my gosh, First Timber, thank you for all those compliments.

You know, it's and I hear those those same words from attendees and it's it's, it's an honor to be able to bring that space to our community.

But you're right, these women show up with a vulnerability and a passion to support each other.

That just creates an energy in the room that is amazing.

And you know, so the our day, my role is to bring in great speakers and great topics and really, you know, keep that energy going and meet these fabulous people.

And it's really become a a wonderful day that that is hard to explain.

I'm sitting here like literally hard to explain.

And when I started this, I didn't know, right.

So you think about the end game.

I had no idea it would do to get this far.

I mean, it's not just Northeast Wisconsin that's coming to this conference anymore.

We had 12 different states represented.

We have people coming from Florida and Colorado and California.

And you know, they're coming to Northeast Wisconsin for a women's leadership conference.

I'm, I'm super proud of that.

So thank you for all of that.

And Timber, you should go.

There are a few men that do attend.

I mean granted, half of them are my family, but you should go.

All right, you know what?

I'll think about it.

I got to tell, so I have to tell a story.

So my husband goes and my my son goes every year and my dad, my dad's been there.

And but my husband was, after listening to one of our speakers in a few years ago, he's just sitting there like shaking his head and he's like, is that really what goes through your mind when you know, because it was around leadership and what we, the burdens we carry with leadership and as women.

And he's like, is that is that real?

And I'm like, yeah.

And he's like, he, he never knew.

And that's.

So if you go in with those open mindsets of learning and growing, you'll it'll be awesome.

So I you will be there.

Yeah, well, you know, and look, I'm not.

I'll get you there.

Wait, I'm not scared.

I think you just said you were scared.

Yes, I did.

I understand.

No, I, you know what?

I you know what?

Let me talk to the boss.

Let me see.

Let me see if I can get myself into the room.

Yeah, it would be great.

All right.

Well, I think it's time that we get ready for.

Absolutely that time and conscious listeners, you already know when you hear that, that means it is time for the topic of the week.

And the topic of the week is chosen by our guest 99.9% of the time.

And guess what?

Not going to be any different this week.

So, Vicki, what's our topic of the week?

Oh, yeah, You know, so that's tough to pick, but I think we should talk about being advocates for each other and, oh, say.

More.

Yeah.

So, you know, I so often we feel alone in this, in, in our journey or where we're going or what we're doing and, and there are moments that we just need that support or that encouragement from someone else.

And I really would love that environment where where if people see a wrong or see something that, you know, should be brought to their to an attention that that people would advocate for each other more.

I see it in high school.

I see it in the professionals, right?

I it's just, I mean, we see it in our political landscapes, but I don't want to go there.

But you know, it's just that it's just that moment that I could say, you know, I'm not sure your comment landed correctly or right.

When we see these things that are not right, let's say something.

That in an ideal space would be amazing, but I don't know, it doesn't feel like that's safe to do right now.

Isn't that a shame?

It is a shame.

You know, because.

I feel like there was a time where you could right, and I don't know, I don't know what changed.

Yeah, you know, there's so there's just been moments in my journey and in my career when, you know, something was done or said and I am just like, what was that?

Right.

And and and I'm sitting there almost surprised.

So not in a space where I could say something and most often the people that are doing it don't know they're doing it.

And the so the safest person in the room to say something is the person just observing and yet they don't say anything.

And you know, I as as a female leader working up through the organization, there were so many times I was the only in the room and, and to not feel I had that support from the team around me was challenging for me to navigate.

Did you go back and maybe maybe you didn't say what needed to be said in front of in in the big room in the in the space with everyone?

Did you go back and get in the ear of who it was really intended for or those who are highly influential to help make changes?

You know, it's, I can say probably 90% of the time I did not because there is a fear of retaliation, right.

You know, these are these are scenes in, you know, conference rooms or in the hallways.

In the end, and as a woman leading organizations, there is a balance we have to carry of being a leader versus being bossy, You know, a burden of being liked because not liked.

You know, you start getting labels.

And so I didn't feel confident enough to do that for myself.

See, I hit that.

But my leadership, that is exactly my leadership style where I'm not going to say it because trust me, I've been the only in almost every space professionally.

I know you understand.

Yeah.

But what I found that works just to take some of the high stakes of that being an advocate is I usually wait and get out of the space and then do it in a one-on-one, do it over coffee and maybe get out of that power setting as a whole.

And then I've just found like it's received doesn't necessarily always institute change, right?

But it's received and it's received respectfully, and it doesn't necessarily harm those relationships.

Yeah, I love that and I love that you're able to do that.

And I think why I feel my journey was a little different is that I just felt, I didn't feel those were safe environments for me to say it.

And it wasn't, I mean it, it didn't, it wasn't catastrophic, right?

I, I navigated through a fabulous career.

But yet at, you know, it's those moments that I remember more crystal clear sitting in this chair than I do all the good ones, you know, and they and I, so I work, you know, and so I, I, I also do keynote speeches and I speak on this often because it's, it's, it's overcoming that surprise of the moment and just saying something non confrontational.

And just because I just didn't have that as I was going through my journey.

I so get that.

What do you think we can do now to get to a place of trusted advocacy again?

Right?

Because I, and I say it that way intentionally, because the thing I think that's keeping the growth of more advocacy and more spaces is a lack of trust.

For sure, I would agree, you know, And So what?

So my hope is that people stay curious and open because so often we listen for right and wrong or yes or no or black and white right.

We just listen for those.

And if it's and so often we listen with the intent to respond.

So we stop listening and start thinking about how we're going to respond.

And when things are different than how we perceive them, we want to change others perspectives.

And I would ask that we actually just ask more about what is it that they see right?

How?

Tell me more, tell me more is such a strong question.

And so it would be it would be really to see people for who they are right and that power of being seen Timber right.

Like if someone sees you for who you are, how much courage and confidence that can give you.

It's just it's awesome.

So that's what I want people to do to each other with each other.

It's just see them.

Thanks.

I'm going to go.

I'm going to add on to that.

Please do.

I, I think real if you don't know, because I think some people don't know necessarily how to be an advocate, right, how to create advocacy, how to promote it.

And I just want to say step one is listening.

For sure.

That's it.

Go listen.

Gain understanding, right?

Because once you understand, then you can figure out how to how to help advocate.

Yeah, and you will understand maybe a challenge someone is going through that you never knew or without truly seeing them you can't support that unknown.

So you know and and people carry their bags are full of things we don't see.

So for us to just be curious and to allow that to that true conversation to happen is really powerful.

I think this is a really cool path you've taken us down.

Where do you think we right now society could really use some growth in advocacy or or some more advocacy or understanding in advocacy?

Let's just say advocacy.

Yeah, you know, it's and and for people that have a hard time truly knowing what that is, you know it it another way to think about it is really the the what you is being seen, right.

I think that's another way and showing support when you see somebody for who they really are.

Where can we use that goodness gracious, like so my head original, I mean, goes to and in my work, it is women in leadership, women in business.

And you know, but also, you know, it's, it's your neighbors, it's, you know, it's so many places.

But I focus my work on helping those women to be advocates for each other as they as they grow in their challenges.

Is there any last things that you would like to say about your topic of the week before we pivot to our next segment?

You know, I think, you know, when we've been wronged and I, it's, I really want people to know that it's OK to do nothing.

Also because it's a very vulnerable place to be in.

And if you don't feel safe standing up for yourself, that's OK too, right?

That's why I really look for those around to do more because sometimes it's just not.

It's not a great place for the person themselves to stand up.

I'm so glad you have that environment, but that's just not everywhere, so you know.

And it's a risky move because even if you do take it offline like that, they would sometimes it is not stillwell received.

Right, right.

Yeah.

So, you know, so that's where I would land because.

But also find the person you trust to talk to because I don't want you to feel alone.

Fax OK, Next segment.

Next segment is called the Soapbox and this is the opportunity for our guests to get on a soapbox about whatever they feel passionate about at this time.

So, Vicki, what are you getting on the soapbox about?

Well, it's going to follow the same theme that we've been going through, but I, you know, my soapbox is going to be, and I don't exactly know but how to say it clearly, but it's really about the balance that women have to carry all the time, right?

Especially as we grow in our professional career, right?

I mentioned earlier, we have to be the boss, but we can't be bossy, right?

We have the pressure of being thin, but don't be too thin.

We have the pressure of, you know, we have our kids at home, but don't talk about them too much, right?

We have the, the, you know, courage to to lead, but you know, but don't tell people what to do.

It's just there's this balance of this right way that women are are supposed to act and it's just, it can be overwhelming.

How to know you're walking the line correctly And it's just.

It makes me mad.

Makes you mad.

Yeah.

You know, it's it's, you know, we want the the security of having, you know, financial success, but yet we can't want money.

You know, it's just there's all of these biases that happen that we're trying to balance and trying to walk into a room perfect.

And it just is not it's it's, it's a, it's.

Impossible.

It's a difficult dream, right?

And so that, you know, so it's so much of did I say too much?

Did I not say enough?

Should I speak up?

How do I speak up?

Do I, do I belong in the chair at the table?

I should maybe sit back a little bit.

You know, I'm, I'm just glad to be here.

Oh my gosh, Timber.

It's like, yeah, I'm just honored to be here.

And it's like, no, no, no, you're there for a reason.

Step up and contribute.

And no, no, no, I'm just happy to be here.

You know, there's all of these balances and it's just, it is really difficult to navigate.

And it depends on the room you're in, right?

If you're in at the family dinner table versus at the corporate table versus, you know, at the community table, we have to, you know, know how that is all the time.

You know, since since you've already kind of stated what generation you come from by corded phones.

Right, right.

What have you seen maybe that has changed for women in the professional workplace and particularly women in leadership from when you first started off on your journey to today?

Yeah, you know, so, so when I started out, it was very competitive with women to continue to move their career up because only a few made it.

And so it was.

So to have a community of women to support you was it was more of a of a pool of women that compete with you.

I would say today that there is more collaboration and and support from women to encourage women to continue to evolve and grow in their career.

You know, it's versus the competitive nature that it was for me a few years ago.

OK, that that actually makes a lot of sense.

What do you think changed there is that is that was that because there was so few women in those spaces and maybe that's what created what I'll call the the Highlander effect.

There can only be 1.

Right.

Because as a person of color, we feel like that.

We feel like that all the time because it feels like we since we are the only one in the room when we're actually in a room where there's more than one of us.

And then it's at times, you know, you hope it doesn't feel like this, but sometimes it can feel like Highlander.

Yeah, absolutely.

And so I don't know what, So what I, what I also feel is that that people are having the courage to be who they are, right?

So, so especially a woman in business, right?

And a woman as as an executive leader or a leader of an organization, there was this persona you needed to carry that was president or executive.

What I'm seeing today is more women specifically are actually able to carry that and still be their authentic self and the courage to just be.

And that is truly amazing, right, Because I know I carried the persona of being a president, right?

I told the story of going to the East Coast.

I mean, I put on my suit coat and you know, and went off.

And so that that I that people can be more who they are, is, is encouraging to me.

So that's that's one, you know, that I see is as a true positive.

OK, All right.

Any thing else you want to add on your soapbox before we let you step down off of it?

I don't know, you know, I I know I'm speaking to someone that understands and so much of what we do, we think it's about us and I did something wrong or I'm not.

I have to change or I have to right?

And, and sometimes it's not about you.

At all.

And we have a hard time seeing it because then we want, right, we read the book, we go to the, you know, the seminar, we listen to the thing, right?

And, and so it's also educating the people around us.

And sometimes that's easier when a third party can come in and do that.

But I just want people to let go of it's my fault a little bit.

Yes, and it sure is nice every once in a while if you run into those people along the way that remind you know that we chose you for you, right?

So bring you.

We didn't choose you for this cookie cutter imagery or presentation or knowledge base.

We chose you for you.

Yeah.

I mean, Can you imagine if we all believed that that would be fun?

Well, sometimes it's we got to have somebody remind us or tell us.

Yeah, You know, we get in the trenches, right?

We get to overthinking.

We are, you know, awake at 2:00 and, you know, in the in the middle of the night and.

Oh my God, you're making me feel seen these.

These these things are bouncing through our head.

I mean, we're not kind to ourselves at 2:00 in the morning, right?

So it's so and it's hard to recognize that it might not be a you, right?

We take ownership of all of that.

So, so a little grace, right?

But I mean, that's overused too.

But you know, it's yeah.

So go be you.

Or maybe grace isn't used enough.

I'm just.

Saying, well, you know, I say that, you know, with this balance of of, you know, what women carry, it's like, you know, give yourself grace, but you know, make sure you learn from your mistakes, right?

Be grateful, but but want more, right?

All of that is good.

All of it.

Oh, OK.

Well, that was a really good so bad.

Thank you.

Thank you for letting me get on it.

Oh yeah.

Oh, yeah.

OK.

Next segment 21 questions.

Oh no.

Oh, come on.

All right, you ain't new to this.

OK.

We've we've, we've traveled this path.

I know actually this might be where we had our glitch.

Don't worry, I'm keeping an eye on things.

All right.

Thank you.

So 21 questions is not 21 questions, it is some really good in depth questions that just really help us understand our guests a little bit better.

So, Vicki, question one, what motivates you?

My motivation is connection with others.

It truly is, is knowing you right and and to that's where I get my energy right.

You talk about what I do for a living and all of the things that I don't like are when I have to sit at my desk all by myself.

And it's when I'm in front of people that I that that is what motivates me.

To see you go do what you do is the most amazing thing.

So that motivates me.

What does success look like to you?

Success is for me is fun.

Like are we having fun?

Fun is very important to me.

I, you know, and and if we can get to a space where the stresses of the world are a little less and we can just enjoy, you know, that is success.

I don't care what it is, but let's go laugh.

Let's let's go be and and that you know, that's that is what what success is.

What irritates you?

So over apologizing.

It's, it's just one of those things.

I got a story on this one.

So I coach women on this all the time.

And it was interesting.

I was facilitating a group of high school girls recently and one of the high school girls would apologize.

I'm like, I had to stop the whole thing.

And I said OK, and I went on my apologizing soapbox there.

But I, so I coach, I coach on this all the time.

I you know, and I was out walking on our on a path around our house and there was kind of a blind corner and he was probably 5 years old, maybe four years old and he's coming around the corner on his bike and we almost collided.

I was walking and I'm like, oh, I'm sorry.

He goes wait, leaves, raises his hand and he's on his bike.

He goes no problem.

And I'm just like, Oh my God, I just did what I coach everybody right?

I but it's the apologizing for walking in the room together.

It's the apologize it right to it's at the grocery.

I, you know, I don't, I don't hate apologizing.

So when you apologize, you know, make it mean something, but don't apologize for everything.

I want to stay on this for a quick second because just because this is something that I've, I'd listen for this and ladies do this like all the time.

And I'm one who will stop and say no need for an apology that you didn't do anything like because I want to let them know I'm listening A&B.

What are you apologizing for?

Let's not do that.

Right.

And the, the IT can be so harmful when we're talking with someone, you know, that we will say, oh, I'm sorry, but I don't you know it, I don't agree with you.

It's like you're already discounting what you're saying by saying I'm sorry.

And that just doesn't make sense to me.

So I and we do it without even knowing we do it.

Nope, that's it.

It's so second nature like it.

It's out there before they've thought about what they've said.

Yeah, it's it's hard, but I will.

I'll catch, I'll catch it.

What worries or scares you?

You know, I there are, there are there are things, right?

I would say, you know, snakes and spiders come to mind.

I was just in Arizona and we were there was a beautiful path around the the place we were at and they were telling us not to walk around that at night.

And if you do just walk around with closed toed shoes on because the rattlesnakes and the scorpions are out there at night.

But you know, I would say so that's that's kind of general.

But conformity scares me, right?

That when we conform to be, you know, so that that can be a scary thing for me when I see people maybe giving in when I when they may have different opinions or different things that they believe in.

Our world needs differences that can work together.

Oh, thanks.

OK.

What are you grateful for?

Well, we touched on this earlier, but I, I am super grateful for trust.

I feel I can give trust and I feel that I can earn trust and it is a foundation of those relationships and those connections that are so important to me.

So I'm, I'm very grateful to have those relationships and to build those.

And, and you don't have to have a ton of them, right?

It, it's.

And so for those out there that are just like, well, how do I start building trust with people around me?

I would just say start with one and you know, you're no, you know, when you're in the safe place to, to, to give it and receive it.

So I'm very, very grateful for trust.

What do you want to be remembered for?

You know, so I am a woman and I did raise 2 fabulous kids and so I do want to be known for raising 2 great humans that will go out and do beautiful things in the world.

So that's just a given.

I think most moms would say that and dads, but what I really want to be remembered for is elevating women and girls.

You know, I, I have, I have seen the challenges, I've lived through the challenges.

I am helping women go through those challenges.

I've just started a new effort to help high school girls elevate their, their thinking.

And I really want to be known as that support and advocacy for for women and girls.

How do you define love?

OK, so I did my homework.

So I'm like, how do I define love?

So I actually looked up the definition and it is an intense feeling of deep attraction, which I'm like, yeah, that's great.

But I my, I define love as home is being home, right?

It's a comfort, it's a routine.

It's a, it's a, it is those wherever, whatever home is for you, right?

And that is, that is where love is for me.

What is the most memorable life lesson you've learned from a parent, a guardian, or a mentor?

Yeah, I I would say that the thing that I wish I would have known earlier is, is just be you.

Just be who you are, learn and grow.

But your uniqueness is what's the beautiful thing?

So even if I, I don't talk like you, I don't look like you.

I don't come from the same background as you.

I want you to be you and I right?

So that learning of just just be you.

OK, here's the the real question, the one that most people really want to know.

All right?

And you already set yourself up, so you know, you already said you do keynotes.

So I'm just going to say, hey, you're getting ready to go out here and do one of your fabulous keynotes amongst in a crowd full of we're just going to go with women professionals.

That's going to be our audience this time.

People you are motivating, people you are helping the coach, people you are helping the guide.

What is Vicki's walkout song?

It is Girl on Fire by Alicia Keys.

All right.

So yeah, that's it's and I not, and that actually is the walk Up song when I walk up on the stage at the Women's Leadership Conference.

So that didn't come from me, that came from those others around me.

And but I will own it.

I'll take that.

You like it?

I like it.

All right, it seems it seems right for the setting.

It does OK.

I love that.

All right, well, you have survived 21 questions.

Next segment, next segments, word association.

I'm going to say words.

You're going to share what comes to your mind, OK.

And as you know already, we have a tradition here on the cash and that is this.

We have always started with the same word for even almost all 100 and some episodes.

Because that word is a fabulous word.

Because it's the word of family, community, love, happiness.

That word is food.

Well, it comes to me as cheese and not because we live in Wisconsin.

I mean, I, I will give up chocolate before cheese.

I know, right?

And but what's funny is that we're known as these cheese heads, right?

And what I, and as I have, you know, done my travels and worked with people from all over and they laugh at the cheese heads like at the Packer games or whatever it is.

And I'm like anybody wearing a cheese head at a Packer game is not from Wisconsin.

We don't wear cheese on our head, but we truly do appreciate cheese.

We we truly do eat a lot of cheese.

We do, and I'm one of them.

Yeah, I love that.

What?

How do we like our cheese in particular is this do we like?

Is there?

Wait, first let me ask, is there a specific cheese you you like and in what form is your favorite?

Yeah, no, I don't.

I can't say I have a favorite.

They all are delicious.

I would say melted like gooey is definitely a very great thing And but I am all from right cheddar.

I I'm don't, I don't even want to list them because I love them all.

OK, I honestly don't know one that I don't like.

That's how we get down.

Yeah.

OK, let me ask, when Vicki makes a checoterie board, is it primarily cheese?

It has a lot of cheese.

I mean, we have to put a little bit of the cold cuts on there just because sometimes you'd need a little, you know, balance a little salt.

Yeah, right.

But if I'm going for a cracker, it's cheese.

Facts.

OK, cocktail of beer.

Oh, I know this is so Wisconsin, but I like the good old old fashioned.

I mean, it is a meaningful beverage.

In my family, we've come up with a recipe that we've that we have on our own.

It will be the beverage of choice if we're like in the northern 2/3 of Wisconsin.

The rest of the world is learning how to make an old fashioned, but they're still not the same as a good old Wisconsin Supper Club Old Fashioned.

Sweet or sour?

Sweet.

I know.

WW.

OK, All right.

Yep.

Shop local.

Well, OK, so I'm going to give a shout out to Caramel Crisp.

I that was one when I was had in my corporate career here in Oshkosh, that was my spot.

Like I loved it.

And, and to see all that they are doing now with, you know, the growth of their shop and I just love what they're doing there.

So I'll shout out to Caramel Crisp.

I'm right.

Here's what I'm going to tell you.

Caramel crisp.

Literally, they're going to have to talk to me.

Caramel Crisp.

If you are out here listening to episodes of the Kosh, we really need to talk because they have literally been mentioned in like the last five to six episodes.

No way.

Every single time and they are either the gym, the kosh in gyms or they come up here in shop local.

So whatever they're doing, people are loving it and it's usually centered around the monster.

Cookie, I was going to say the.

Cookie And you know, I'm not going to lie, I've, I have only set foot and I've lived in Akash for over 30, right?

I've probably set foot in Carmel Chris maybe like 3 times and apparently I'm missing out.

Yeah, you are.

It is a, it is.

It is all things like you can, it's and the cookies, right?

The cookies.

Music.

You know, well, I told my Bon Jovi story earlier, right?

So that was definitely an influence.

But but I got to tell us.

So I have two adult children and a couple years ago they they're they were like, Mom, you're coming to a Morgan Wallen concert with us.

And I'm like, I don't really like Morgan Wallen.

I'm like, I don't even know Morgan Wallen.

What on earth?

And they're like, no, no, you're coming.

We want you to come with us to Morgan Wallen.

And so so I like started listening to his music because I'm not going to go to a concert, not be able to sing the songs, right.

That's just not how I roll.

So I started listening to Morgan Wallin and we went to this concert and there is just something about being at a concert with your two children, you know, just enjoying the moment.

So now I am a Morgan Wallin fan, not only for his music, but for what that environment that he brought to me with my kids.

It was awesome.

That's amazing and I get that.

I got a concert planned with my daughter and her husband this summer and we're I'm just like me and my wife both were like they asked us.

We feel so privileged.

Can I ask who?

Yes, we're going to go see Pitbull and Lil Jon.

So Lil Jon and Pitbull out at what is that Alpine valley?

And this is my first trip to Alpine, so like, I'm geek.

You've been here this long and you've not been to Alpine?

No, you gotta get out a little bit.

Not not caramel crisp, no Alpine Valley.

I'm glad you're getting out there, Timber.

Well, you know, it's, it's one of those things.

I'm, I'm, I'm at that age, I need to try a few things before I can't move around no more.

Do it while you're mobile.

Lil Jon is the huge Packer fan, right?

Lil Wayne is the huge Packers fan.

Oh yeah, yeah, OK.

Lil Jon is the what guy What?

OK.

Yeah, he is famous.

OK, streaming.

I don't really stream.

I don't have one.

I know, kind of weird, right?

Wait a minute though.

OK, so you don't got a Netflix or anything either?

I mean, we, Yeah, no.

No, just no.

I mean I it, it is weird I know, but I am not that vested in like all the thing, all the shows.

All the shows, I mean, that's fair.

Last Word community.

Joy, you know, community is what it you know, it is, it is, it is a peaceful, joyful place.

And we have that here in northeast Wisconsin.

It is really a wonderful place to be.

OK.

The applause means we have made it through another segment.

All right, next segment is called the Kosh Hidden Gems.

So Vicki, this is your opportunity to share a hidden gem with the Kosh listeners does not have to be in the Kosh.

Maybe it's something we all know about and we don't know the details, or maybe it's something we don't know about and you're going to share the details.

Well, I think everybody knows the gem I'm going to talk about, but I, I want to tell the story about this beautiful gem because I was a single mom for a very, very long time.

I, you know, raised my kids and it wasn't until my kids were on their way graduating from high school that I met my husband and we were looking to get married.

And the place that I needed to have this happen at was the waters.

And it was, it was, and it was all things, right.

It was the beauty of Oshkosh, the lake, the, you know, the just the surrounding, it was the beauty of the people.

And you know, it was it was just an amazing day.

And so I will forever have that in, you know, tucked away for a for a gem of mine.

And and, you know, it was, it was at that, at that event, right at my wedding, my daughter was 16, my son was 19.

And she gave a toast.

And, you know, we're in the upstairs of the of the waters and, you know, all the beautiful round tables and the beautiful people standing, sitting around them.

And she gets up and she wants to give her toast.

And she says there are a lot of girls my age that dream of her wedding and my and she said that that wasn't my dream.

She said, I've been dreaming of this day because, you know, Brendan and I are leaving soon and we didn't want mom to be alone.

And that was and I so it was.

It's just the love and energy that was in that space.

And it's just, it's all that it's so it's so awesome.

So my heart belongs belongs here.

I'm going to cosign that because that's where my daughter got married.

And let me just say this, that team is amazing.

Oh my God, they were so helpful.

And the people who served on the day made the day extra special.

And that venue, Oh my God, for what it is that to have that in the cash and also for it to be fairly affordable, right?

For a wedding venue, right?

That's insane.

It's all things.

It is all things.

So I just want to give a very, very big shout out to the waters because Vicky, I so so agree with you on that gym.

And they can mix a fabulous old fashioned.

Oh, they they handle their business.

They do handle their business, even when everybody is rushing there.

Yeah.

Right.

All right.

I love that as a gym.

OK, so our last segment, but my favorite segment, and that segment's called Story Time, and that is an opportunity for our guests to share a story with the Kosh listeners.

That story can be about absolutely anything.

You've been very kind to us because you've been blessing us with stories all along this episode.

But I know you got one that you're holding there.

You're, you're holding, you're holding a big one for us.

So I got to go back.

So I just so I want to talk about the community that we live in, right?

So, and like I mentioned, I was a single mom for, for quite a while and there was literally a time when I was traveling and, and I and it snowed back here in Wisconsin and I was dreading coming back because literally I don't know who is going to shovel my driveway, right?

It was.

And I don't know if I would have been able to get in after the snow plow came through.

And so I am turning the corner on my street and someone snow plowed in my driveway.

I literally like timber.

I would I almost cried because like the burden of right doing all the things and to come home and to see that being done.

I was just like it was so it the beautiful community we live in that we are able right to to give each other these gifts is just is really cool for me.

Oh my God, you know what that made me think of?

What's that?

We should give a shout out to all of the individuals out there who do that because I'm, I'm not even kidding, because, you know, we with us just having Snowpocalypse here a couple of you know what, a month ago now, like, 'cause that was a surprise.

Snowpocalypse was no joke over here.

And when you have those individuals, you know, I love the individual with the ridiculous snow blower that they're thinking this is time to make this happen.

I've been, I paid a lot of money for this joker and I'm gonna get out here.

I'm gonna do the whole block because you know, and just know this, you are a blessing.

We see you and I want to thank you on behalf of all of us out here who need you to come out there and bless us all.

Right, right.

And they're out there having fun, right?

They have the big thing and they're out there doing their thing.

And yeah, God bless you.

Thank you.

Oh yeah, 'cause I know what you're talking about with that.

Right.

Yes.

OK.

Well, Vicki, at this time, we're going to get ready to start wrapping up this episode.

So we're not done, but I just want to take a moment and say thank you for sitting here on the couch with us.

Thank you.

Like thank you for creating this space.

It's a it's, it's an honor to be sitting across from you on this.

I call it sitting in the chair now and thank you for making the time.

And the space is special, and I can't even explain why, but I really do feel like there's this positive energy of sharing that happens within it, and there's things that we can share with each other that helps us become a stronger community.

Right, we are not alone.

We are not alone, all right.

Well, gosh, listeners, you already know what's about to happen here.

Yep, you know what that means.

We're going to start wrapping up this episode.

So let me just say to you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

Thank you for spending time with us.

Thank you for giving us your minds and ears.

Thank you for caring about another amazing community member, another amazing neighbor out here helping to make our community a better place.

I loved everything about this conversation.

It was real, it was authentic, it was helpful.

I hope you pulled a nugget out of it that will help you.

And for my professional ladies out there, you now know there's this amazing conference that happens.

So don't talk about it, be about it.

Get in that space, get that energy, meet your peers, become a stronger professional, grow your support system.

I just really had fun with this conversation overall, but you also know we got work to do here and let me give you some homework.

We are always trying to become the number one podcast in Wisconsin.

Can't do it without you.

So while you're listening to us, I need you to do a few things.

That is this.

If you're listening and you're thinking I want to sit in the chair, most definitely reach out to me and let me know.

You might be reaching out and you're saying, Tipper, we need a segment on this or we need to ask a question about that.

Most definitely you got to let me know.

Your input is everything.

So reach out to me at askthekosh@gmail.com, onceagainthatisaskthekosh@gmail.com and let me know what we need to be doing, how we can change, how we can become better.

Also, I want to get in front of more eyes and ears.

I think we have something so special here.

You know, the goal of the Kosh was to RIP down the silos and for us to get to learn about our neighbors and hear them as their authentic selves and what they care about and what's important to them and what their contributions are to to our region.

And I think it would be cool if more people can learn about it.

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OK, so Vicki, we are back on and that here's what's about to happen.

We are we are working through buttons here.

That's the way you're doing.

So let me make sure I got this right right here.

I believe that wasn't the button.

All right, you know what?

We're going to let that be the button this time.

OK, usually we have a nice air horn, but we're just going to call this shout out time.

So what are your shout outs?

Oh goodness.

So I want to, I want to shout out to the Oshkosh Community Foundation.

It's just a, a wonderful asset here, especially the Women's Fund.

Shout out to them.

A group of women doing really great work for women.

So shout out to them.

You know, I, I want to shout out to the people that that were my advocates right through my career.

There's just great people that I've been able to work with and be with and that have supported me.

You know, Margie Harvey was that fearless HR executive that called me where and I was stretching the cord to try to be in the bathroom.

Just shout out to her, some great leaders at Miles Kimball.

Stan Krangle was the president that preceded me.

An amazing man that prepared me for my career.

You know, shout out to, you know, amazing events and Joey Reader, who is the partner with me on the Women's Leadership Conference.

You know, shout out to my husband, man.

You know, he has patience for me and all my things.

So love that you know, and shout out to to my kids, right?

I'm super proud of them.

This is this journey that we've been on the three of us for a long time.

Is is great.

And my last but not least, Timber is a shout out to you in all that you bring our fabulous community.

Hey, I appreciate that.

Yeah, OK, well, let me see here.

I got my list of shoutouts.

My first shout out I want to give is to the Varsity Club.

You know what, if you don't know about the Varsity, they are fabulous.

It is the bar hall.

It is over on Main Street.

It's huge in there.

But you know what they have?

They have some of the best bar food in in Wisconsin as far as I'm concerned.

And the people are cool, like right.

So it's a vibe in there and like it's just a good time.

So I went to varsity with the wife.

We had an amazing time.

I've been going there for years.

Like, we appreciate y'all just for what you are.

I want to give a very, very special shout to UWO once again, as a super proud Titan and Titans out there, we need to do a better job of telling people we're Titans 'cause we should be super proud about being a Titan.

All right?

But UWO has given me the opportunity that I by the time you hear this episode, it probably has already happened.

But I got an opportunity to MC the inauguration of the new Chancellor and the pride that I have that I was selected and given this opportunity.

I can't even tell you it.

It means the world now.

I'm scared to death.

Trust me on that.

And y'all already know from all these past episodes that I slaughter some names now.

But we going to do what we do and we're going to make each other proud.

So we going to make that happen.

All right, I want to send a special shout out to Color Bold.

Color Bold is this amazing?

Almost like a business chamber for businesses of color in our region.

And they were the ones that were nice enough to bless me with this small business grant that I'm going to be doing.

I got to take some classes with it.

I'm going to be working with SCORE, actually working with a SCORE mentor also.

So, but I appreciate that they saw something in timber ties and said, all right, all right, we're going to bless him a little bit and help him grow as an entrepreneur.

Appreciate y'all out there and then y'all already know the last spot.

It is not the least spot.

It's just the last spot, but it's the most important spot and that is the last.

Shout out always goes to the wife for continuing to let me make this podcast in the house.

Baby, I love you.

OK, last thing to do here, Vicki.

Yeah, And that is this.

We got an ABC multiple choice.

Option A Share some parting words of wisdom with the Kosh listeners.

Option B Tell us what would Vicki today tell 13 year old Vicki.

Option C All of the above because that's good multiple choice.

You always got to have an all above.

Yeah, yeah.

So I think my answer goes to both A&B, but my, and I don't know if it's wisdom, that's, that's it.

That's, that's, that's a big word.

But my, my words would be don't fear, fear that when, when we have those moments of fear, they're the moments that you're growing, you're learning, you're doing something new and to don't, don't be fearful of it, but embrace it and continue on your journey.

Go out there, be fearless all.

Right, Vicki, what you think?

Hey, you know, you always make this easy, so thank you.

Got to tell you, it's a little hard hearing my voice on the radio.

You know what everybody says that the cash.